Blur adapted and active focus

Hii,

I have been working on improving my eyesight for a while now with no improvement.

I was blur adapted for several years as I never wore my glasses all the time. I then went back and wore my full correction for 2 months and then went on to try and find active focus with diffs and normalised.

I was unable to find active focus with both diffs and normalised. Now I’m thinking two months was not enough time to get my eyes used to clarity?
Because when I wear normalised it seems like slightly bad quality but I don’t really notice blur unless it’s very far away (that’s with dropping 0.5)

I’ve watched Jakes videos about blur adaption where he talks about killing positive stimulus and saw some threads using search function. I’ve researched active focus so much and still my eyes can’t get it. I just wondered if any one has had improvement with blur adaption and how long people went back to their full correction for, any advice would be appreciated as I don’t want to give up.
Am R-5.25 and L-4.50 with -1 astig in each eye.

I like your attitude! You’ll get a lot of help here.

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Two months in theory should have been long enough but who can tell… There is a troubleshooting playlist on Jake’s channel you probably should run down. My first thoughts though:
Have you released that ciliary (the walking around in blur is generally (be honest with yourself)? How long have you been working to find active focus (it takes some people longer than others)? Are you able to active focus in diffs? As you will read in other threads, and indicated you have gotten from Jake’s videos, having a lot of blur really isn’t necessary or even helpful. That “bad quality” is what you want to improve. If you find that you can’t, it is possible you need more time at full correction to help you recognize smaller amounts of blur, but since you just made a change, probably stick by that change for a few weeks and see how you go, if nothing happens then reassess.

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Thanks for your reply. I have not been able to find active focus in diffs or in normalised. I’ve been trying for a year now and got no results my eyes can’t focus as much as I try and relax. Think I’ll just have to go back to my full correction for couple more months.

I was blur adapted last year and bumped up my Rx 2X before I felt it was the right amount of blur but I never went back to my ‘original Rx’. It took me about 4 months before I was comfortable at reducing again to get back on track. You want to make sure you can see at least the 20/40 line on a Snellan with a bit of blur and that should be about the right Rx. Some people prefer a bit more clarity but 20/40 indoors is a minimum for me b/c when I go outside I can see clearer.

For AF it took me a 1.5 months to achieve it. Definitely want to make sure you don’t have ciliary spasm, it can take weeks for it to clear up. Sometimes I notice if I’m super tired or spend too much screen time my ciliary muscle locks up pretty fast the moment I look at my phone. So you want to give yourself chunks of time to really relax so that you tell it that relaxation is the default and not seize up.

Hope this helps!

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You don’t need to find AF or do AF to improve. You need to have enough clarity and you need to work at the edge of clarity (or edge of blur if you prefer that expression)

You need good vision habits and good reference clarity.
The latter is described in @Candacew.wong 's reply.

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10 year long blur adapted here (before finding Endmyopia :))

After years of almost no improvement, finally I went down from -3 to the last diopter. But the road to there was… I do not even wanna remember it :slight_smile:

One thing I learned the hard way, that as “blur adapted” I was too ignorant - all the time - to measurements.

Getting more objectivity into my status quo was something I refused.

I thought for long time “I can completely ditch measurements and will ‘feel’ when things go right”. That turned out to be very critical and practically prevented any stable progress. Because I never figured out my correct differential / normalized setup in the first place!

I was stumbling on this statement from you, that you do not really notice blur with your normalized unless very far away.

“Slightly bad quality”, whatever that means, is actually quite normal, whatever normalized you put on. I think especially blur adapted people are very sensitive on that and have for a longer period a hard time judging anymore what clarity really is. So I would not take “slightly bad quality” as too serious. And it is super important to shift from “too much guessing what clarity is” to own, real measurements. It is so important.

So I am wondering: Your norms are maybe still overcorrected.

I would be really curious what your Snellen (with Normalized) and Centimeter Measurements (without Glasses) are.

Can you share those here?

With 1.0 Astigmatism the CM Measurement maybe a bit hard to figure out, because of the astigmatic blur. So in case you have a hard time, distinguishing astigmatic blur from spherical blur in your centimeter measurement, prob the Snellen will be a bit easier starting point to determine your overall vision status.

Do you actually have already a Snellen in your flat? :wink:

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Thanks for your reply. My measurements are 19cm for the right eye and 21 for the left eye. With my normalised which is -0.5 less than my full correction I can read the whole snellen very easily but it’s not good quality? It’s maybe 20/25 or 20/30 but the letters are easy to read just not sharp I don’t know if that makes sense? I just still cannot find active focus. That’s given me hope that you’ve improved after years of no improvement as I’m in the same position as I joined EM in Dec 2019. I’m trying to change my lifestyle as I don’t have much outdoor time because of my job working in the hospital as a nurse I do 12 hour shifts. I’ve applied to work as a community nurse so I can walk to peoples homes and at least get vision time but I’m just wondering if my blur adaption is still there and if that’s the cause of my no improvement

That makes total sense :slight_smile: And that is actually reported a lot by people: Being able to “read that line”, but not really sharp, still slighty blur. That is NORMAL. This will usually not prevent you from improving.

Jake wrote an article way back then on “Snellen clarity”, which I still find super helpful as my orientation: 20/50: The Brilliant & Super Simple Rule For Improving Eyesight - Endmyopia® - Improve Eyesight Naturally

So for me personally 20 / 50 is a baseline to gain solid improvments. And 20 50 doesn’t even need to be super sharp. Actual fun fact: If you can read 20 50 crystal clear, without the slightest blur, it would be very likely that you can read up to the 20 20 line too.

Hopefully this can give you a bit chills, that if you can read 20 30 somewhat unperfect, your normalized is definitely good enough.

The other important aspect is lighting:
If you can read 20 30 in bad, dim lighting in your flat, that prob translates easily to 20 / 20 vision outdoors with good lighting. So that would explain, why you experience just a blur challenge in the “very far distance”.

I see. That could definitely be an aspect that makes improvement a bit harder. And honestly here I prob can not add much value in this situation, because I luckily have enough flexibility for a lot of outdoor time.

At least in your job you prob do not stare at a screen for hours (at least I hope? :)). I know, bureaucracy in that job typically increases and increases…

However: According to Jake, 10 Minutes of Active Focus outdoors per day should actually be enough to improve. But we need additionally time for reducing eyestrain, which also happens a lot quicker outdoors. That is why Jake recommends in total at least 1 hour of outdoor time after 3 hours of indoor time, so first to release the ciliary muscle from strain and afterwards doing ActiveFocus for at least 10 minutes.

But you say, you do not get ANY (?) ActiveFocus experience.

How is it for you with your differentials in CloseUp? Finding ActiveFocus in CloseUp first is typically way easier than finding it in the distance. Because outdoors the vision conditions are way more fluctuating, depending on casted, partly casted, sunny, dry eyes, stress level…

So do you have also some quite regular times of CloseUp / desk work in your job?

If so: Maybe using that to get AF with differentials might be a good starting point for improvement!

Another troubleshoot area is the Ciliary muscle:

Jake mentions often that with a ciliary spasm you cannot improve your eyesight. I do not know if that boils down to “also impossible to get active focus”. But some have the theory that the ciliary muscle might play an important role in ActiveFocus ability (and I do believe that too, because I never experience any AF at all when my ciliary is locked up).

All in all, my current guess is:
You wear your normalized all the time, in the job too… is that true? And prob this normalized is actually too strong to give you any notable challenge indoors, especially with the typically super bad lighting in hospitals. Getting AF in bad, dim lighting - for me - is way harder.

So all in all: I think the differentials are the important starting point for getting the AF story going…

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Yeah I use the computer at work, it’s constant documentation but because of the fast pace of my job I can’t switch so easily. I cannot do any active focus near or far, I just don’t know how to do it

I get really bad ghosting as-well close up and with my normalised which I hate. Just wondered because you were blur adapted for so long did you wear your full correction for some time? Just worried my eyes aren’t focusing because of blur adaption or if there must be another reason why my eyes can’t focus as much as I relax

AHA! That was a very important piece of the puzzle you just shared…

Because a lot of people panic when they experience this ghosting / double vision and think their vision is getting worse from EM. Did you NOT have this ghosting before you started wearing your normalized again? If so: If could be that this double vision actually is now the sign for your first improvement!

Here the important check:

What happens when - with your normalized on - you cover each eye and now check your double vision per eye, e.g. on the Snellen?

Do you experience the double vision in ONE single eye?
In EACH eye?
Or just with both eyes COMBINED?

If the last case is true: Congratulations! Then you are actually now close to your first improvement stage.

In case you just have serious ghosting / double vision in ONE eye WITH your glasses on: That eye is likely undercorrected and needs more support.

Also important: Do you have astigmatism correction? How much? And do your normalized still have that astigmatism correction? Up to 1 cylinder of astigmatism you can exchange the cylinder by 0.5 “normal” diopters (so + 0.5 on top of your normalized)

In case the double vision just started and did not happen before:
A search on google on “Endmyopia Transient Astigmatism” might be an eye opener…

If I close each eye one at a time and look at text I can see double vision. I’ve been wearing these normalised since Dec 2019 and had no improvement. My astigmatism is -1 in both eye but my optometrist reduced my SPH by both 0.5 in each eyes and kept CYL -1 in one eye and slightly reduced by having it 0.75 in the other. I hate the ghosting it makes me feel sadddd but I don’t wanna give up, it’s especially bad at night

It is recommended to reduce by only .25, your chronic DV may be a product of reducing too much. Also having the cylinder reduced in the one eye at the same time may have been too much change at once. I wonder did the opto give you a reason for the changes made?

You might find yourself more comfortable in full correction at night. And/or making sure to increase your ambient lighting. For that matter you might consider adding back in .25 of spherical full time for a while in order to help resolve the DV since it is persistant… Have you read up on resolving DV?

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Yes I told my supportive opto to keep my astigmatism the same but he said if I reduce SPH he has to change the CYL as I won’t be able to tolerate it. We decided to reduce 0.5 as my full correction is -5.25 so we thought dropping by -0.5 would give me 20/30.

I’ve tried going back to my full strength glasses and the double vision is still there so I don’t know how long it’s going to take to go away or if it’s permanent now. I will do some more reading on it.

Have you had double vision since December?
If so then you just chose the wrong glasses from the beginning…

Aha. And you even have that with your normalized with the -1 astigmatism correction put on? You STILL get double vision in each individual eye, when covering the other?

That would be kind of unusual and would suggest that you have actually higher astigmatism.

It is actually quite important that you have a normalized which does not give you significant ghosting in each individual eye, because that astigmatic ghosting is likely to be there at all distances (but with just -1 cylinder typically just slightly). And will make it much harder for your brain to get active focus / clearing blur, because the astigmatic blur keeps everything blurry - all the time - at all distances - no matter how much you try to focus.

Your opto seems to be quite supportive. That might come to the rescue.

Can you try with your optometrist a setup with “spherical equivalent”? He actually should know what that is. So he actually replaces your -1 astigmatism in each eye with a spherical of - 0.5 Diopters. And check if you can see clearly then without ghosting.

Maybe you need - 0.25 D more, depending if you still see double vision in the individual eye.

A very slight ghosting in each individual eye should actually be fine. I still have it too, when I cover one eye, I can see it. But my visual cortex learned already to remove it, when both my eyes see together.

Two vids from Jake concerning astigmatism (so classic “double vision in one eye” astigmatism) which might be helpful:

Easy “first help” Astigmatism check and first hint if correcting it is really necessary: Double Vision? Easy Astigmatism Test | Endmyopia | Jake Steiner - YouTube

Spherical equivalent for low astigmatism (up to -1 cyl):

From everything combined what you said, and all the trouble you experience with improvement including some very weird factors, I have a suspicion.

My suspicion is that you have likely OVER-PRESCRIBED spherical diopters (that’s why you get almost zero ciliary muscle movement and no active focus effects).

And likely your astigmatism is slightly UNDER-PRESCRIBED which gives you the single eye ghosting (which combines to even heavier ghosting with both eyes)

So this is what I would do in your situation:
I would get a SECOND measurement from another opto. Just to get some confirmation if all your values are really in the right range

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Yeah I’m getting so tired of seeing like this it’s really frustrating. I’ve been back to my supportive opto and he’s changed the axis when I’ve told him about my ghosting but it’s still there. I don’t think my opto knows how he can help me.

I’m just scared of going to another opto in case they overprescribe me and I’ll end up paying for overprescribed glasses. But I think I’m going to book another test and just buy the glasses that are going to let me see clearly for a while because these glasses are not manageable.

Thank you for the help and the videos

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