Cold turkey from -3.0

After writing so much in off-topic threads I feel like I should contribute a bit on the EndMyopia side of things. I’ve been reluctant to share my story because I haven’t been following the rules very well, but I’ve found so much encouragement in reading or hearing about others’ improvements that I feel a sense of duty to give back in the same way.

To give a bit of background information: My myopia began when I started devouring books around age 8. I remember hiding several books in and around my bed, so that when my parents came to take one away from me at night, I would still have a selection available to me which I would then read under the covers with a weak lamp, so that they wouldn’t see the light shining through under my door. The only thing that probably saved me from becoming severely myopic is that I was spending a lot of time outdoors, particularly hiking and skiing.

My parents are both myopic, as were many of the people I knew and respected. So when I got glasses, it was almost like an initiation. I was told it was genetic, practically an inevitability. Glasses were linked to being smart and academic, which I wanted to be. My first pair was at -1.25, and I remember being amazed when I was able to see leaves on trees! Overall, I was happy to have them. The only thing I didn’t like was wearing glasses while skiing, because they fog up under goggles or cause pressure points with the helmet, so I also got some daily contacts around age 12, just for when I was skiing.

Over the years I progressed to wearing contacts almost exclusively, mainly for vanity reasons, incrementally going up to -3.00 on both eyes. I got the OK from my optician for wearing each pair of monthly contacts for 30 days and night straight, which I would often do without issues, practically forgetting that I even had myopia. This went well for many years, but in February 2020, my eyes suddenly became very irritated, burning and red, nothing like I’d ever had. I got quite worried and removed the contacts for a few days, but didn’t want to wear my glasses, because I had gotten so used to not wearing them. I remembered that I had heard of that Bates method thing that was meant to give 20/20 vision naturally, so I started googling again and somehow ended up on EndMyopia.

I probably read a few dozen of the articles, signed up for the email list and by the time I got all those emails, there was barely anything in there that I hadn’t read yet. So I ordered a pair of normalized glasses, trying a -1.5 to see how far I could go on my first reduction. However, I ordered them from China in March 2020, so when COVID really hit, my parcel got stuck. Since I was indoors most of the time anyway and I could just about manage without any correction, I decided just not wear glasses and wing it. It was definitely uncomfortable at times, especially watching TV (about 3m away), and I’d sometimes trip over things on the ground, but I could just about manage. Soon I struggled to even tolerate wearing my -3.0 glasses at all.

Initially I was crouched very closely to my laptop screen to see (about 30-35cm or less). Now I can comfortably work at 60cm with some blur, which allows me to practice clearing up the image as I work. This however is with the brightness set quite high, it is noticeably more uncomfortable with the brightness all the way down, which is how I used to like it when being near my eyes.

I won’t provide a record of how my progress went, because whilst I have some measurements, I don’t trust that I always used the same criteria for judging where the edge of blur lies. Also, my vision can vary so dramatically over time that I’d need much more data points to make any sense.

What I do know now is that with a pair of old -2.25 glasses, I now see perfectly under most conditions, and the -2.5 glasses that I got for comparison offer no noticeable improvement.

To summarize what EndMyopia steps I followed or didn’t:

  • I have been spending very little time outside
  • I spend about 13 hours a day working on my laptop
  • I do spend about half my days working in front of a window where I can look at things 20m in the distance, and I do often look up, clearing up as much blur as I can
  • I am very aware of blur on text while I’m working, and work to clear it up wherever I see it
  • I never got differentials, but went straight to normalized

My improvements are likely not as fast as they could have been had I done everything right. But I’m glad that even with my very laid back approach I have been able to revert my vision to the state that it was last in 10 years ago.

I wouldn’t recommend anyone else to go cold turkey on -3.0, because I’m pretty sure I have some serious blur adaptation. So my next step is to get some appropriate normalized glasses to get re-aquainted with the level of clarity that I would really like.

Overall this really isn’t the fastest or most impressive success story, but I’m just pleased with the improvements so far and looking forward to continuing in this direction at whatever speed is compatible with the realities of my current life. :slight_smile:

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I don’t recommend this either, although it worked for me. But if there is no way someone with -3 or less of myopia is willing to go back to wearing glasses fulltime, this is no real obstacle to the EM method. I would rather see someone try it cold turkey than not even try because they are convinced it will not work that way.

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I agree with that. I meant that if you can, the prudent choice would be to take the steps that Jake recommends and many have tested.

I sometimes forget that many can’t afford new glasses, or for whatever other reason can’t get new glasses. And of course many just don’t want to wear them. I can back up your experience that it is definitely possible to drop the glasses below -3 and improve, but perhaps it’s not the easiest path.
I suppose worst case you could even do it with higher prescriptions, though I could imagine it becoming quite debilitating for a lot of daily tasks, whereas I was able to function normally with -3. The only issue was needing my laptop screen at 35cm for the first few weeks.

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Yes, it does depend on how much computer screen time one needs to put in. I could do it because I put in very little time on my laptop, initially indeed at about 35cm, using the laptop keyboard. I print pushed and things moved very quickly so now I work at 65cm (a small screen, of poor quality) with an external keyboard… I am closer to -1(SE) with my right eye on 14pt print on paper in good light. Even with my much weaker eye I started print pushing on my book reading (17cm). Binocular acuity is determined by my right eye, with some help from stereopsis by the left eye.

I did buy 13 pairs of reduced glasses, which I used only for driving, testing on the Snellen, and for a very short daily reference to 20/20 clarity. I initially thought I would have to wear them for longer than that, but could not tolerate that, as I had not used glasses other than for driving (and cutting my toenails :grin:).for the previous 30 years. So going cold turkey depends very much on past history and current visual needs, in addition to sufficient tolerance of blur.

Interesting, our journeys are completely opposite from the perspective of previous lense use. I wore contact lenses literally 24/7 for many years, and you hardly wore your glasses for the last decades, but it worked in both cases. How long is it since you started on your EM journey?

Yes, I do a ton of print pushing, which I find extremely helpful. Also doing the external keyboard and put my laptop on a box on my desk so it is more at eye level. Definitely the most comfortable I’ve ever been working with this laptop. And it’s easy to adjust the distance by pushing the laptop forward or backward whilst maintaining the same body position with my external keyboard and mouse.

A pair of -1.75 and -1.25 from Zenni should arrive soon, which I plan to use as a visual reference to 20/20 when I watch TV. I like quiz shows, and it does get frustrating not being able to read the text on screen. It’s particularly bad because they often use white text on a dark background, which I struggle with much more than dark on white.

So I finally found a pair that is acrylic AND doesn’t have a rim on the lower edge. Whilst I love having my field of vision uninterrupted by rimless glasses, I just cannot deal with those nose pads getting tangled in my hair every time I want to rest the glasses on my head. I specifically wanted them to be narrow so that I could read underneath them, and since narrow glasses aren’t in fashion right now the combination of those things is really hard to find. If anyone else is looking, here they are: https://www.zennioptical.com/p/plastic-half-rim-frame/2220?skuId=222016

17 July 2019, and most of the big gains in the right eye were in the first 7 months. The left eye followed more slowly. Going cold turkey means one does not force or hold back either eye, so I did a lot of mixing and matching with my lenses. I had the foresight to buy them all in the same frame.

@Rugosa Hi, I been looking for this exactly since several days of knowing about Endmyopia method. Due to my nature of work, I also spend 10 to 12 hrs on close up screen.

So do you mean that Endmyopia method didn’t worked due to more amount of close up work or else it is not an issue?

I.e despite with more working on close up screen, for a Person with -2.5 on both eyes can go to 0 Power with Endmyopia method despite 10 to 12 hrs close up work and no outdoor visit (of course, 10 mins in the morning sunlight daily)

@Jasonn I changed the title, I think it’s a bit confusing.

Basically, I ignored many of the EndMyopia recommendations, but I still made progress. Even though I spent 13 hours on a screen most days, I have improved a good amount.

I went from -3.0 to 0 for screen time and it worked for me. Maybe -2.5 to 0 could work for you, I’d say try it! Everyone’s needs are different, so you’ll still need to work out whether it works for you, what glasses you need for looking in the distance (most importantly driving) etc. What information have you read so far?

I am pleased you did so, as I also find it too categorical to say you did EM wrong - you and I and many others have done ‘variations’ on EM

I like that, I’ll call it a variation. :slight_smile: I suppose that’s ultimately in the spirit of EndMyopia - figure out what works for you.

Hi, I am really sorry for my misunderstanding i.e can you please once again answer in simple language the following things

  1. When you started?
  2. At start what is your power?
  3. Now, you saying despite not following method and working on close up screen, you improved? Means can you let me know the current power of yours

Ha! I didn’t realise you had no gains thread yet.
Great to get the ball rolling.

Sounds like that damn fangled Bates method to me! (jokes)

As I’ve heard Jake say before, his first reduction was by two diopters. He also doesnt reccomend it :rofl:

Me, I have no choice but to follow the rules coming from -10

No problem.

  1. I started in February 2020
  2. I was wearing -3.0 contact lenses
  3. Yes, I spent 13 hours on my screen almost every day, and despite this, I improved. Now I can see perfectly with my -2.25 glasses.
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Yes I ended up needing quite a few words to explain everything that has happened since I started. :smile:

Summary

Shhh… I actually do palming sometimes :see_no_evil: :innocent:

Yes that’s kind of what I was trying to say. I think most people will do best with the gradual reduction, especially at high myopia like yours. I can’t even imagine what it must be like to look at the world without glasses at -10. But around -3 you do get into territory where it is just about possible to live without glasses (except for driving), as I now know from experience. But I have definitely tripped over more things than ever before. Also I don’t see dirt, so when it’s time to clean on Sunday and I put on my -1.5 glasses I’m like… gross, I had no idea. :crazy_face:

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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: there are advantages to blur :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I used to give lessons / lectures in traditional classroom setting to 30+ people with non-corrected -2D. I always knew those comforting unified potato heads would look completely different and unique when walking up to me with their questions later :sweat_smile:

Oh I wish I’d thought of that sooner! I don’t often give presentations or teach groups, but when I do, I’m always a wreck because I over-analyze their expressions.

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I take care not to put on glasses when cleaning. But as I see better now without glasses, the dirt is becoming more intrusive. I will have to develop different strategies to tolerate it. There is no way I will spend precious time (at this stage of my life when there is not so much of it left) dealing with never-ceasing dirt accumulation. And I do have the wonderful pretext that exposure to all sorts of dirt strenthens the immune system. :grin: Where I live none of it likely to be serious disease-causing dirt.

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My thoughts exactly on the matter :smile:

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It was great to see you improved -0.75 despite working on close up screen that many hours, few more questions on the close up screen?

  1. Do you used to do any Eye exercises?

  2. Do you used to take break while working on close up screen 20-20-20 during all this period? I.e for every 20 minutes taking 20 seconds break to look at 20 ft distance

  3. Do you have any exposure to Sunlight during your close up work?

  4. Do you used to wear spectacles whole day or else only when needed them for close up work or any other activity?

  5. Lastly can you let me know exactly what and how you did regarding blur adaptation i.e do you have one pair of glasses with reduction for close up screen and other for long distance viewing? If yes, with what differentials you started with both i.e close up and long distance?

  6. One of the person told me that as I am going to do close up work and have -2.5 original, It is better to go with -1 for close up work, I tried one day wearing -0.75 which I have in order to test how I am going to handle this? Then after wearing for an hour and remived, I can feel the Pain in head and around Neck for about 3 to 4 hrs before I get back to -2.5 lenses, So is this normal at beginning or else I need to use -1.5 or else -2 for close up work?

Lastly I am very Happy to know your responses. As I been interacting with quite a few people since a month. I need to know details about EM working for a person who does 8+ hrs close up work, No outdoor visit and nice to found you based on your early response as I am almost been crazy to know this type of case study.

Coming to my experience, I never liked to have spectacles but due to my close up work and stress I had to get them during college days and as I don’t want to wear them at -0.5 (like many say those days once u wear them you have to keep for life), I don’t want to wear spectacles at that time and tried some Ayurvedic things and only exercises which didn’t worked any, later I didn’t kept spectacles for few more years and lastly when I checked that time the sight gone to -2.5. it was stable since then as I was now 25+, Suddenly one fine day I came across a video about EM where the person who telling about it himself started it and experienced -4 to -2.5 within 7 to 8 months time Period, Later I did more analysis about the EM site with all its videos and case studies, I also came across a Person who done EM method and reduced from -3 to -1.5. Since then as I already told that I always wanted to see Naturally, Then I realized that Myopia can be reversed and I no longer needed spectacles to see if followed this method.

But since then Before moving forward, I have two Major questions in Mind which I want to clarify? One is about regarding 8+ hrs close up work, No outdoor visit and EM working? Which is thing I knowed from you

And another one is Unanswered i.e There are many who say it will be difficult to reduce further from -1 to 0? I.e even if it takes time, If we can achieve 0 Power i.e able to see naturally without spectacles and Later also once achieved if maintained the same zero power for rest of life then I feel utmost Happiness in finding this method? So this question still I didn’t get any clarity despite I read some able to see without spectacles and came to 20/20 vision naturally

What is your native language if I may ask? I’ve never seen someone capitalize like you, and I’m wondering if that’s an influence from your native language.

Phew, that’s a lot of questions, but I’ll try to answer them all.

  1. No, I don’t do specific eye exercises. I just do a lot of active focus whilst working on the screen.
  2. I only found out yesterday what the 20-20-20 rule is :smile: But on the days where I work in front of the window I do look out for about 2-20 seconds every 5-30 minutes. On the other days it’s a lot less.
  3. Never direct sunlight, but a bit of indirect sunlight.
  4. I only where glasses when I really want to see the TV screen (3m distance) or when I’m going out (which is about once every two weeks right now).
  5. I don’t have any glasses for close up / screen work. I only wear glasses for distance vision.
  6. I can’t advise you specifically on what you should do. I would say wear what you are comfortable with!

Unfortunately I don’t know much about going from -1.0 to 0.

Hope it works for you :slight_smile: