Was just thinking today while riding my bike and then I caught myself like damn why am I thinking when I should be active focussing?! Not that I’m very introverted but it got me thinking, do introverts have a much harder time reducing myopia? Introverts are more likely to get lost in thought and to have hobbies that involve closeup as they need more alone time to recharge. What do you guys think, is this making the EM journey much harder for introverts?
Absolutely not. Extroverts can be overwhelmed by thoughts too, that’s a biology rather than a psychology thing. And when going out with others, extroverts usually go to closed spaces and always need to be looking at people’s faces with their distance glasses, which is not ideal for improvement.
In fact, I feel people often get “being introverted” confused with social anxiety or agoraphobia. While it is true that some introvert activities that allow them to recharge (painting, writing, etc.) are mostly close-up things, there are other introvert activities that are compatible with the goal, like walking and meditating in nature (or at least quiet places in the city). Not to mention that you can take any of your close-up activities outside where there is good light and plenty of opportunities to look up at things far away. In fact, when you aren’t around other people, it is much easier to achieve active focus, because you can take as much time as you want doing weird things nobody can understand.
As an introvert, I find that introversion only helped me with my eyesight. I can go for a walk on a whim, go as far as I like, take as many or as few breaks as I want, stop in the middle of the road to read a sign for five minutes, explore open spaces without thinking about other people’s needs like stopping and looking for food. Anxiety/agoraphobia did hold me back at times, but those are not a part of being introverted and are completely independent issues. Not to mention, not permanent.
Interesting question. No personality profile included with the paid course (where I do most of the data collecting), so … missed opportunity there.
If I had to guess though, not really. I’m an introvert. So I prefer rowing solo on a quiet river rather than team sports, or kitesurfing or paragliding, or whatever doesn’t require socializing - disposition not preventing outdoor, distance vision activity.
Also like to travel a lot, go on long rides, daily hour walks, all kinds of distance things. As long as I’m not forced to be around people, all good.
Just one guy’s take, obviously.
In general: If you enjoy outdoors alone, you’ll find a lot more opportunities to be outdoors. You don’t have to wait for others to organise what to do, when and how, and adjust to everyone’s availability. You don’t depend on others turning up for it.
You can go outdoors when you feel like it.
And if you spend enough time outdoors anyway, when you do it with others occasionally, it will feel less of a burden for an introvert.
There isn’t a 1-2-1 link between outdoors and socialising.
I don’t think you were actually thinking about introverts, but more about indoor people who only go outdoors when commuting and even then glued to their smart phones…
No. But introverts are prone to self-sabotaging where they convince themselves that they cannot do things and/or have hard time with things and/or bad at things because they are introverts.
I found your comment seriously insulting to introverts.
What you list is related to anxiety, procrastination and negative mindset, equally present with both introverts and extroverts. And such behaviour highly depends on the actual situation even for the same person.
Many of these come from pressure from family / society / culture to fit in or from the perceived need to please people. And actually introverts will more often opt out and feel OK by being looked at as the non-conforming wierdos by their own decision. (Their genetic f*ckitall level is simply higher)
Introverts (or those of us with introverted tendencies) tend to recharge by spending time alone. They lose energy from being around people for long periods of time, particularly large crowds.
Extroverts, on the other hand, gain energy from other people. Extroverts actually find their energy is sapped when they spend too much time alone. They recharge by being social.
Both can party and go to events and enjoy these, but one will need a recharging day after it and the other one will feel it should go on the next day.
Many comedians, leaders, etc are introverted - they enjoy what they do when their show is on, and choose minimum socialising (indoors or outdoors) for the days off.
Finally a note: introversion / extroversion is a scale with very few people at the two extreme ends.
Then I seriously insulted myself I’m as introvert as it can be. I absolutely thrive now in home office where I don’t get tired at the end of day because of 8 hours of forced contact with colleagues.
I’m not talking about self-sabotaging in the sense that “I don’t like parties because I’m introvert”. For myself I absolutely hate parties, simply don’t understand the appeal. I could count in one hand how many parties I’ve ever attended. No, by self-sabotaging I mean things like “I’m bad at communication because I’m introvert” or “People don’t like me because I’m introvert” or “I would never be good at team sports because I’m introvert” or “I will always have hard time in improving my eyesight because I’m introvert”. I’m also prone to this kind of self-sabotaging. I don’t say all introvert does this. I just say we are prone to this. Partly because of social / culture pressure reasons, partly because of the tendency to overthink things.
Being Introvert may make sharing EM more difficult.
And me as an introvert say we are not prone.
These are more confidence issues. How about replacing “because I’m an introvert” in these sentences to “or am I just overthinking in advance”?
Sounds fine. But then I would add that introverts prone to overthink things in advance
Introverts are prone to do the over analysing in their heads vs extroverts are prone to sit down with people and go round and round about the same problem they cannot seem to be able to tackle, which is also over analysing but in a social environment
I am well aware of the characteristics of introverts, having some myself and was thinking of the fact that they recharge in alone time which OFTEN includes books, and close-up hobbies, but of course I wasn’t thinking about the fact that introverts are also happy going for long walks alone
vs. extroverts OFTEN getting together in dim-lit restaurants or going to bars with flashing lights only to party, or visiting each other at home and playing boardgames? Extroverts can have a lot of indoor hobbies, too, while socialising.
Just an additional comment on this.
You and introverts are not bad at communication. You were perfectly fine when doing the 2 videos, the LeSecret Meetings. Talking to people from the Forum about EM. (I’m talking about the end product, whether or not you worried or analysed during or in advance)
But introverts are indeed often uncomfortable talking to people who they don’t know and/or don’t have common interests with (or don’t yet know about it). Icebreakers, small talk, chitchat can be challenging as these are less functional more social.
I’m no different but someone taught me a good technique that usually works. When chatting, people often find you interesting when you ask questions that make them talk about themselves and then listen attentively. So ask how are you first, and when they return the question, answer the “how are you” and drop in a very short story about yourself and ask them if they have ever had a similar experience. (This way it won’t sound like an interrogation, which is often holding back introverts from using icebreakers) Don’t think about big things. E.g. I’m fine, just returned from a holiday to ___ been amazing because ___ or it was the first time I ever tried / seen ___, what did you do this year for your holiday? or have you ever tried / seen ___? etc. If you can link in a hobby or interest here, and they are interested, too, it can turn into a good conversation. You can also prepare with talking about a new thing you have just received / bought / seen / heard of, etc. say why you find it interesting and ask them if they have one / seen on or heard about it.
If you talk to an extrovert they won’t even notice you prepared, if you talk to an introvert they will be grateful that you prevented the awkward silence
Oh and another tip: start chitchat with shop assistants and cashiers. Just practice dropping in a sentence when there would not be a real need for talk. This will keep the rust away from your small talk skills. (If it feels too uncomfortable, next time you can go to another shop or go back to self check out… )
you;re right, but at the same time you seem offended for some reason . as a 50% extravert and 50% introvert (well, acc. to all personality type tests) I get both sides. It was a perfectly innocent topic, but I get that introvert doesn’t mean homebody. It was just wondering, on the flipside if extraverts are more likely to enjoy being out and about and getting distance vision. I know somebody very well who is the type of introvert who says “being outside drains me” and just likes to be at home. So not all introverts are like that, but I was thinking more of those kinds of people having a harder time reducing myopia. To be honest, I’d never peg Jake as an introvert, until coming on here I’d never heard of an introvert who’s so into such “relatively” extreme sports as kitesurfing. This is because kitesurfing (just as an example given here) is something that provides energy from external simuli, while introverts often get energy from their internal world
As @BiancaK said, introverts and extroverts are on a spectrum, with, in my opinion, most people being somewhere in the middle. Outdoor activities can be very “hybrid” things if they are done alone; they allow for external stimulation as well as a great potential for introspection and self-discovery. If you notice, while interacting on this forum, we’re being half extroverted (because we are reading other people’s thoughts and replying to them), yet the fact that forum messages aren’t composed and read in real time allows for some introspective writing.
Reading books is not an introvert activity, it is literally being focused on another person’s thoughts. So is listening to music. You are receiving external stimulation in both of these cases, even if you are physically alone.
I’m actually not very comfortable with the notion of introverts and extroverts because that is less a psychology thing and more an environment thing. People back in the day had plenty of time to be bored and meditate, now we need to consciously remove ourselves from external stimulation to do so. I found out I was much more extroverted than I thought, but I still believe myself to be an introvert because when I consciously shut down all my electronics and stay with myself and perhaps a pen and paper, or with nature, I find I can stay in that space for quite a long time and have much more energy to be productive later on. In fact I feel everyone needs alone time to recharge, but hardly anyone does. We are sometimes fooled into thinking we do because of the absence of people around us, even if social media takes more of our attention than a physical person.
My other problem with this notion is the fact that people often confuse “introvert” with socially anxious and “extrovert” with the type who needs constant stimulation and can’t sit with themselves. One of my friends is a socially anxious extrovert. I could go on days and weeks with nothing but my own company, a weekend is her limit. But when we go out in groups we’re not very familiar with, she is the silent one because being around strangers makes her anxious while I am the one keeping the conversation alive lest things turn too awkward. By the end of it, people think I’m the extrovert and she’s the introvert, when in fact she wasn’t at all being in her own head at the time, she just wasn’t comfortable speaking.
It seems people are defining extrovert and introvert in terms of being physically around people or not, and that’s just not how it works. We can’t confuse the medium and the activity, either. If someone is writing on their desk, are they being introverted or extroverted? Well as an example, it could be the former if they are journaling their own thoughts, the latter if they are replying to a letter.
That’s likely (social) anxiety. First of all, you’re wonderfully good at communicating complex ideas in a language that isn’t even your first so I guess we all can agree that’s not true in general. Social anxiety is when a person’s speech and communication abilities lose in clarity and fluidity in social context. That is, it is when a person perceives the social situation to be stressful, thus what happens is a manifestation of the “freeze” stress response; parts of us get shut down while others get boosted. The “freeze” response (unlike fight or flight) is about making someone invisible so as not to attract the threat’s attention, and eloquence is not compatible with that. This is the reason a lot of us hate being at parties (sensory overload) and are much better at expressing ourselves online, especially by writing; we feel much safer socialising in that way. The “self-sabotaging” thoughts happen to everyone and are the brain’s way of reinforcing this pattern; they can be different for everybody but the gist of it is learned helplessness (“there is something inherently wrong with me”). My point is that this is not a psychology (personality) thing but a biology thing, and it can be reversed with the proper tools (not to find analogies with EndMyopia for literally every struggle on earth, but it takes time and a quite similar process). A healthy introvert can feel safe and confident talking to strangers (not all of them, only the safe ones), but the fear of social situations is very common in all personality types (but mostly the type of people who are not assertive enough, thus leading to their biology setting boundaries where they cannot). People who spend most of their time reading and who can’t stand being in silence too much might look like they’re introverted because of our introvert stereotype but they’re probably extroverted.
Most would disagree with your hypothesis, probably because of the generalization that introverts=lost in thoughts=less AF. I am however a perfect fit of that criteria. You ask if introverts find the journey more challenging, my answer would be that the difficulty is coming less from that fact that I AF less than I should be doing, but more from all the frustration because it is harder to keep the AF habit seamlessly.
I agree that introverts can be convinced by these things, but I disagree that it is they who convince themselves. It is my extroverted circle of people who usually points out the disadvantages of introversion.
I played a guessing game by myself about this topic wherein I try to predict if people are myopic based on how anxious they seem. I plan to post my experience about this soon!
This. I used to listen to Howard Stern then emulate that sort of casual chat / interview style. Let people talk about themselves and they will think you’re just greeeeeat.
Occasionally interrupting with questions to keep things interesting for yourself, otherwise if given the chance, a lot of people will launch into endless monologues about just about anything about their lives.
Main issue still is, two hours into any social interaction environment, and it’s high time to get out of there and be somewhere quiet.
Why are you making so much assumptions? I’ve never said I’m bad at communication, nor do I think so. I’ve wrote typical thoughts in general, not my thoughts.
Totally My favorite related episode from Two and a Half Men:
I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding about what introversion is. The vulgar idea of it that it’s the motivation of the morose person who avoids people and shuts himself up at home is, at the very least, incomplete and deceptive. It has been my fate to be extensively tested in my time. In preference tests, I’m told that I come out as statistically unlikely: right smack in the middle on introversion/extroversion, and on almost everything else. But on a more scientifically based, multi-day aptitude test, I was classed as deeply introverted. But that laboratory defined an introvert as A person whose main reality is interior, rather than exterior. That is, such a person works out his reality in large part internally, while the extrovert does so more in collaboration with others. This introversion can be compatible with socialization that looks “normal.” For example, while watching a football game with good buddies, the interior life can have a reality of its own, despite and not necessarily at war with the surroundings. A very wise mentor of mine was a man who was most himself one-on-one, and he easily detected the fact that I’m most myself when addressing a group, as he saw me do often. That latter activity may seem superficially extroverted, but it was for me really an occasion for exposing before other people things that I had worked out on my own—and not being interrupted by their perhaps unhelpful interventions! I’d therefore wager that some of the best teachers are introverts.
I might also mention that the coronavirus shutdown, which has been more extreme where I live than in a lot of other places, has been unexpectedly good to me. I miss my friends, especially the friends from abroad who haven’t been allowed to travel, but I don’t suffer as a lot of people do. And when I have been in small social situations since, I enjoy them but they go on way too long for my taste, and I’m usually the first to leave (having, in the past, often been swept out of parties with the empty bottles at the end, introvert though I may be!). I love the domestic surroundings that I have created for myself, which no doubt reflect my interior self. And though I welcome others into them, I don’t have the almost organic need that others claim to have for such contact. (I pay a therapeutic masseur once a week for literally corporal contact, and he says that business is booming because of that need during this period of non-touching.)
I’d also bet that at least one person above is attributing some of his personality traits to introversion that may be sui generis and nothing to do with such a binary classification.
Great thread, @Lajos.
Bingo! [sorry for the Americanism … or, do other cultures play Bingo?].
I use this technique in interviews without fail. When the interviewer begins running out of steam, I start asking him/her about themselves and their own experiences. Without fail the energy level shifts completely, and the interview often runs well over.
I’ve heard several times after the fact that the interviewer gave me extremely high marks, despite them doing most of the talking. I learned this from Andrew Carnegie’s, "How to Win Friends and Influence People" a few decades ago, which I read as a way to try to become less introverted. [It was mostly a sales book, but yes, I wanted to break out.]
Right, or perhaps there is an introversion spectrum? I remember situations as a youngster where there was physical discomfort being around people. That has evolved over time to the point that I’m totally unafraid of standing out. Don’tgiveashit’ism… or self-confidence?