Low myopia & astigmatism - asking my last questions before starting my journey!

Hi Guys!

  • I measured a few times my myopia + astigmatism and confirmed my eyesight.
  • Got the history of all of my prescriptions & compared them
  • Have read every article I could find on myopia & astigmatism, where to buy glasses, the materials, what causes myopia, and the science behind it
  • Have watched a lot of videos on Jake’s Channel and people who improved their eyesight talking about end myopia on youtube

So right now, as Jake recommended, I’m coming with all the details, the knowledge and the right questions (I guess) before starting my journey.

I tried to upload all of my prescription that I’ve put in order but it seems like beginners can’t do that. To make it short, I started without any astigmatism and at R -1.00 L -1.25 and I a now at
R: Sph -1.75 Cyl -0.50 105° / L: Sph -1.50 Cyl -1.00 70°

I measured it myself and got the same results. Here is a link to see my “prescription” evolution : https://ibb.co/wJJ4LWQ

Here is my situation:

I’ve been wearing glasses daily for more than 6 years and used to keep them for close-up work also. (don’t beat me please, I didn’t know what it was doing to my poor eyes)

I started getting some info, reading books on how to stop and cure myopia for a few months now and I’ve stopped wearing glasses for most of the time as I’m mainly doing close up stuff, or going for a run almost every day for 1h and sometimes walking or doing activities for a whole day when it’s sunny and when possible, this without my glasses.

Since I stopped wearing glasses, my eyes started to feel more relaxed after a week I’d say.

DISTANCE VISION: I have a lot of clear flashes when I’m going for a run and some when I’m a passenger in a car (still without my glasses.) These flashes get longer with time I’d say. It’s been one month and I feel like I can clear up things on demand when I’m running, even on a rainy day. I can see a lot of things clear at distance but the small details like plate numbers and number on road panels are difficult to read as I experience double vision (maybe due to astigmatism?). But it happened 3x when some panels quite far from me became readable perfectly clear for a few seconds, after blinking, it got back to almost perfect clarity but with double vision, and then I Blinked and it got blurry again.

CLOSE UP: When I’m doing close-up work, I see perfectly clear at 60cm on a sunny day and perfectly clear at 57-58cm on a moody day. I try to stay at 65 cm from the screen to practice active focus and I can do it. It feels like the screen is getting closer to me. I would say that it is easier to do active focus on demand for close-up work. I can’t really do it when running, it comes very often but I don’t control it and when I blink, it disappear and get blurry again.

DAILY LIFESTYLE FOR MY EYES: I spend between 3 to 6 hours daily in front of my computer reading pdfs or working. But, I try to go out for at least 1h every day even if it’s raining. When it’s sunny, I would go for some outside activities the whole day If I can. I try to spend as much time as possible outside when it’s sunny. Even taking my laptop with me outside to work in a park or close to the lake (If it’s too hot, I’ll jump in the water and get back to my work lol).

HABITS I STARTED TO TAKE: I try to take a break of 20-30’ after 3hours of the screen and I’ve set up (with an app called « time out ») a break of 20sec every 15’ and a break of 5’ every 40’ when I’m in front of my computer.

I also started to practice my peripheral vision awareness, blink more (naturally and not force it but mainly noticing that I didn’t blink that often) and try to practice active focus as much as I can.

REGARDING LENSES: I used to wear full prescription lenses without astigmatism correction for a long time (especially when doing physical activities) and getting rid of astigmatism on my lenses, if I remember well, it was perfectly ok for me. I tried some lenses with my astigmatism correction but I hated it. It wasn’t feeling great.

REGARDING ASTIGMATISM: My left and right eyes are quite the opposite in terms of the axis. When I watch an astigmatism chart with both eyes, it’s not noticeable that much. (see my axis) → they look like this R: \ L: / - seems like they complete each other.

Now that you have the main pieces of information about where I’m coming from and what my lifestyle is regarding my eyes, here are my questions:

1. Differentials: I guess, with what I’ve read, watched, and told you (also taking into account my prescriptions) I don’t need close-up glasses. Am I right? I prefer to ask before starting as I don’t want to take everything I’ve read for granted and I might have missed an important post about it. I thought about plus lenses but after having read some article, I don’t think it is a good idea.

2. Regarding the normalized glasses: Taking into account that I’ve almost read all the things I could find on the website I came to 4 choices but can’t choose one and want to make sure that it makes sense.

For reminder, here is my full prescription : R: Sph -1.75 Cyl -0.50 105° / L: Sph -1.50 Cyl -1.00 70°

Here are my options :

a. Right eye : -1.25 sph / drop astigmatism - left eye : -1:25 / drop astigmatism

(trying to equalize as I only have 0.25 diopters difference and it’s been progressing this way for years and also because I have low myopia. I read about eye dominance so maybe it’s not necessary.)

b. Right eye : -1.50 sph / drop astigmatism - left eye : -1:25 / drop astigmatism

c. Right eye : -1.25 sph / Cyl -0.50 same axis - left eye : -1:25 / Cyl -1.00 same axis

d. Right eye : -1.50 sph / Cyl -0.50 same axis- left eye : -1:25 / Cyl -1.00 same axis

I’ve read that we should first reduce sph and don’t reduce astigmatism at the same time and keep it but I also read some article on the blog telling to drop 0.5 diopters of astigmatism (equal to 0.25 of sph) and also read an article saying to drop completely astigmatism if -1.00 or below. I really don’t wanna mess up and start on the right track, that’s why I’m giving that many details. I’ve also read on the blog an article mentioning someone with low myopia who dropped completely astigmatism too at the beginning and it went quite well.

With your experience and knowledge and taking into account what I said in my post, what would be the wiser pair of normalized to start with, in your opinion guys? It’s not a diopter question but more of a « should I drop astigmatism or not? And should I try to equalize as my myopia has evolved this way and it’s still low? Please, If I didn’t ask my question correctly, let me know. I want to respect the rules as much as possible.

3. Small detail: One of my friends got a pair of glasses a few ago and the offer said that he could get a second pair for free for a friend, so I got a pair:

R : -0.75sph NO CYL / -0.75 sph NO CYL

I got them for free and at that time I was reading a book telling me to get glasses with one diopters dropped for sph and also drop the astigmatism correction if it was less than 1.5. By the way, these glasses give me a 5-6/10 visual acuity. (20/40) I read that we should aim for a 0.25 diopter reduction and sometimes a bit more for equalizing and challenging the eyes (approximately 20/30). Should i keep them for later or may I even start with them? I prefer to ask as I already have them. I just wore them for driving and sometimes at night.

ps: a lot of videos have been changed for private on youtube, especially the Pro topic ones, I would have watched them so if you feel like I’ve missed anything please let me know, I would be glad to listen to you guys.

Thanks Jake and all the community for what you’ve done, the science-based articles got me hooked AF, and seeing such a community gave me hope!!!

Marcello

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Even though I’ve read a load of theory by this point I won’t answer the other questions because I haven’t had personal touchy feel experience with low myopia or astigmatism yet.

Differentials as you might know by now are not how your vision improves at all, only distance vision will do that. Differentials are just for people who are probably more nearsighted than you to keep their sanity while using computers without wearing distance vision glasses that would ruin their eyes. Let’s say you’re at -1.25 and you want to find the edge of blur:

To calculate diopters to cm, do 100 divided by the diopter value, ignoring the sign: 100/1.25 = 80.0cm You should be able to see 80.0cm with -1.25 myopia.

If you’re comfortable using a screen at 80cm, you don’t need differentials.

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Hi Marcello,
I don’t feel qualified to give you any advice, since I’m fairly new to this myself. I can only tell you what I did and how it worked out for me. Check out my introduction (featured topic in my profile) for all the details. As you can read in that post I only had astigmatism correction for one eye (L). I also read the article that said you can drop up to 1 diopter of CYL and replace it with half the amount of SPH. So when I did the math I found that I could drop the CYL and replace it with SPH equivalent and then equalize both eyes at the same time by simply reducing the SPH of the other eye (R) by 0.25 diopter! That was just too good to pass up :nerd_face:, so this is what I ended up doing for my normalized (after confirming that an equalized pair of differentials without any astigmatism correction worked fine for my close up work). The first time I put them on it felt really weird and I thought “this is not right”. The left eye felt almost over corrected and the right one under corrected (which I guess they were). But to my surprise it only took about an hour to get used to them. So I stuck with it, and 4 weeks later reduced another 0.25 SPH in both eyes. As for the astigmatism correction, I never really missed that. Initially there was some double vision in the left eye, but it didn’t really bother me and has improved considerably since. What bothered me more was the difference between both eyes, and that’s something I’m actively working on right now by patching my better (L) eye occasionally to work exclusively on the weaker (R) eye. So looking back I think it might have been wiser not to fully equalize both eyes right away. But I don’t think it did any harm either. I’ll just need to spend some time to give my right eye a bit of extra attention (which already seems to pay off BTW). One has to equalize eventually, so better to get it over with is what I think. Especially if you like to walk around without any glasses at times, which I do.
So in your case I personally would be inclined to drop the astigmatism correction as well (replacing it with SPH equivalent), especially since you said you’ve already been wearing glasses without CYL in the past and it didn’t bother you. If you do the math, that alone will result in an equalized prescription for you… But then you’ll probably want to reduce SPH a bit as well, though I wouldn’t go quite as low as -1.25 right away. But hey, I’m not going to give you diopter specific advice… :wink:
And yes, I would definitely hang on to those -0.75s. They might come in handy in a couple of months. But you’re not there yet… :wink:
And no, with such low myopia I don’t think you’ll need differentials if you don’t miss the astigmatism correction.
Well, good luck then. Let us know what you decided.

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Thanks @NottNott for the calcul, didn’t know about it. I did it with my best eye (-1.50) it gave me 66cm. I tried to measure and i’m comfortable at this distance. It’s slightly blurry and I can clear it up, so i guess you confirmed what I tought, no differentials for me. Thanks for this point!

Also, I watched some of your YT videos, they are great, simple, straight to the point so congrats! It helped me and some friends and I’m sure will help many more people in the future so thank you for your work.

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If I were you, I’d try to keep the correction in each eye the same. -1.25 SPH sounds like a reasonable starting point, maybe a little aggressive since you’ve dropped the astigmatism correction entirely. -0.75 sounds like too much challenge to start out with, but if you can really see 20/40 in them why not bring them along with you for extra challenge on nice sunny days when you’re feeling like your vision is good. Remember you don’t want “blur that you can’t clear”, you just want a little tiny amount of blur that you can clear up.

I wouldn’t wear any glasses at the computer, you can just push the text away to the maximum distance that doesn’t cause blur and still be a reasonable working distance from your screen.

If you’re buying online and don’t mind spending the extra $20 it might be worthwhile to make up an extra pair with a little bit of astigmatism correction left in (maybe SPH -1 with -0.25 CYL or -0.5 CYL) just so you can experiment and see what it does for you. On the other hand, if you’re comfortable with no astigmatism correction then dropping it entirely isn’t crazy either.

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Hi @mbassano!

I’ve read your introduction right now.

Thanks for your reply and taking the time to read me and share your exprience. I also read that we could replace Cyl by SPH in order to drop it. I tought about it but as my astigmatism is still low and my two axes complete each other. I tought about compensating the CYL with sph but should I do it only for my eye with -1 CYL ? As the other is only 0.50 or both ? Would you compensate for both ? I’m curisous to know as the choices i came up didn’t aim to add sph to compensate. I’ll think about it and will take into account what other people in my situation have done too in order to take my final decision.

Also, When you reduced after 4 weeks the DPT again, did you measure your astigmatism to see where it was at that moment ?

Merci!

Hi @nycmao !

Thanks for taking the time to read me.

Yeah, the ones with 0.75 are too aggressive to start with. They help me for driving atm and for watching TV for example but for outdoor and distant vision they don’t provide (yet) the only slight blurry challenge. I’ll keep them for later.

Yeah, no differentials.

Yeah, I don’t mind spending more to get my eyes healthier so I might consider it!
So in this case you would drop 0.50 and 0.75 sph and lower astigmatism too? Did you get to that -1.00 because of the fact that in this case I would keep the cyl and in the other case I would drop it but get to -1.25?

If I order these two options to try wich fits the best, shall I take my decision on wearing zthem for example one during a day and the other during a day too and then decide ? Or less time ? I guess jumping from one to the other would confuse my brain so I’d need to decide fast. I guess I will just “feel” what’s the best.

Thanks for your recommendations!

I’m just thinking that it’s still an aggressive reduction from your full correction but it would give you a sense of whether the SPH -1.25 with no CYL is beneficial or if having a little bit of astigmatism correction would help you. There are some subtle differences between astigmatic blur and myopic blur and I’m thinking having a pair with some CYL might help you to decide if you should “work down” the -1D astigmatism or if you can really just drop it altogether. A lot of people find that the astigmatism correction isn’t necessary, for me it seemed to be “doing something” useful.

It’s kind of fun, too, to experiment a little bit. You can look at the leaves on trees or something and really see what the CYL correction does (or doesn’t do.)

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Maybe I could try these 3 to see wether it is too agressive or not :

-1.25 sph for both and no astigmatism
-1.00 sph for both and -0.25 CYL & -.050 CYL (your alternative recommendations)
-1.25 sph for both and -0.25 CYL & -.050 CYL (less agressive if astigmatism needed)

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That sounds reasonable to me. You might find the pair with more correction to be useful for walking around or at night or whenever you want some reference for what close to “full correction” looks like. They might also be useful for when you’re tired or otherwise had a bad day.

Or you could just work through them as your eyes improve if you find starting at -1.25 SPH was “biting off more than you could chew”.

(And it’s possible that the pairs with CYL will just gather dust because you don’t need the astigmatism correction at all.)

If these were my eyes (they are not!), I’d go for no corrections for close up as long as I could keep about 60cms from the screen and then I would gradually increase the distance. (If that was too tiring for the full day, I would get a pair of -0.5D no cyl to use when I would otherwise go too close or took a really bad posture.) Once I increased it to at least 65cms throughout the day, I would start going uncorrected when at home (first just some days, then increasing gradually - and wearing corrections on other days just to be aware of the details missing from the 20/20 vision). Taking in as much from the peripheral vision as possible would be a key for my impovement.

As for normalised: Option e) :sweat_smile: which is closest to b)
I’d reduce equally from the SPH (not too aggressively), would drop the -0.5 cyl from the right eye and drop as much as I could from the left one, which may be all -1D, but may be -0.5D only with the first step, depending on how long I was corrected for the cyl, how much I’m used to it.

I started from a similar SPH correction. You may want to check these posts in my thread: #1 and #5
The first one was a catchy one deliberately - while all true I’d suggest checking the later posts to understand the how, too :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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It’s advised to replace a CYL with ½ the diopter value of SPH, and this makes perfect sense. A cylinder corrects for 100% on one axis and 0% on the other, so the average correction is 50%. So if you decide to drop the CYL I would suggest to do it this way for both eyes. Like I said, this alone will result in an equalized prescription, which is what you’ll want when you’re frequently switching between wearing your normalized and wearing no glasses at all (for close up). Because no glasses at all means both eyes get the exact same amount of correction (0 D) without any CYL. Switching constantly between different focal planes is confusing for the brain, so you want focal plane change between the 2 situations to be as simple as possible. That was the main reason for me to opt for a fully equalized pair of differentials & normalized right from the start (because I also like to go without my glasses some time). But just replacing the CYL with SHP equivalent will give you the same average correction as your current prescription, which is probably over corrected. So you’ll probably want to reduce the resulting SPH values by 0.25 or 0.50 in order to give you some blur challenge. This is something I did not do in my first normalized for my left eye where I just replaced the CYL with SPH equivalent. The result was that the left eye felt a bit overcorrected. That’s why I dropped another 0.25D SPH after 4 weeks, because I didn’t want the left eye to be over corrected. Of course this resulted in the right eye being more under corrected then the left…
Anyway, you’ll need to make your own informed choices about this. I realize I went against Jake’s advice by making complex changes right at the beginning. Jake says to start things simple by just reducing an equal amount of SPH for both eyes, and to do at least 2 of these before even thinking about messing with the CYL. When a person has average or high myopia this makes sense, because they will have plenty of time down the road to work on the CYL and equalization. But when you have low myopia the amount of SPH reductions are limited. And you’ll need to deal with the CYL and equalization sooner or later. So I opted for sooner in order to get it over with and make things easier down the road where progress will undoubtedly be slower anyway. I haven’t regretted it so far, but that’s not to say it will work equally well for you or someone else. But the reason I think it might work well for you, is because you said you’ve already been wearing glasses without the CYL correction in the past and it didn’t bother you. And you also obviously don’t miss the CYL when doing close up work without any correction

To be honest I never measured my astigmatism myself. I just used the CYL from my last prescription as a starting point for my calculations. Like I said, I made that second reduction after 4 weeks mainly because my left eye felt over corrected. But I did check my vision with the Snellen chart before reducing. I could then see 20/20 with my left eye and 20/25 with the right eye and 20/20 with both. And after the reduction it was 20/25 L, 20/30 R and still almost 20/20 with both. The way I know that the astigmatism has improved, is simply by looking at the subtitles on TV… In the beginning I had noticable (but not severe) double vision on those with the left eye, and that has gone away now.

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Hey @BiancaK !

Thanks for your message. I read your story and the thread you recommended. Seems like it went pretty fast for you. You also had great habits and challenges implemented naturally on a daily basis. What made you drop 0.75 sph on your first reduction? The fact that you could see almost 20/20 with them on a bad light condition? What did you think about the fact that it was so different from your prescription of 2019?

I think I’m gonna drop my CYL completely as I didn’t miss them when I was wearing lenses without cyl correction. I can also active focus on demand (almost) and clear up things. I’m just struggling with DV, i guess it’s because I’m doing it without glasses and it’s a bit early for my brain to make it perfectly clear now. It will take time.

I was thinking about starting with -1.25 for both eyes as my eye with the most cyl (-1) has only -1.5 sph and the one with the more sph (-1.75) only has -0.5 cyl.

Taking that detail into account and the fact that my myopia progressed this way (always 0.25 difference) during all of these years, would you still recommend to start reducing equally and then maybe after the first reduction, maybe equalize?

Also, did you only wear contacts because of a personal preference or for other reasons such as peripheal vision etc.?

I can’t wait to start. I already checked some online shops hehe!

@BiancaK @mbassano @nycmao I forgot to mention in my post that my actual full prescription gives me 12/10. So it is overcorrected.

So that’s why I tought about dropping the Cyl as they are low and the axis complete each other (when covering my strongest astigmatic eye I can notice the -1.00 but when using both eyes I don’t notice it. It might be because the axis are almost opposite so the image created by my brain doesn’t show me any astigmatism. I can only notice the astigmatism in my eye with -1 when covering the other eye.

And that’s also why I tought about equalizing and going to -1.25.

I’m giving myself one more day to think about it and let you know what I chose. Thanks all for your messages!!!

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UPDATE : I chose my first normalized! I went to the optician to test what I tought to be a good idea with their test lens kit. I came down to this conclusion :

1 pair with sph reduced of 0.25 for each eye so L: -1.25 and R -1.50. And I get another pair for free when buying one so I’ll take a second one with the same diopter reductions but I’ll add -0.25 CYL for my -1 CYL eye. They give me a 20/30 vision and make the 20/20 a bit challenging with the slight blur. I got down to -0.25CYl as i didn’t notice any difference with the -0.5.

Thanks again guys for all of your messages!

Has any of you got into the back to 20/20 course? I’m curious to know.

@NottNott as mentioned in your video explaining the EM method, you did get decent results without paying anything right? Or did you make this video to explain the whole concept or maybe ended up taking the course?

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That’s right. I’ll encourage people to support Jake when possible, but it isn’t necessary and you can find everything you need for free. BackTo20/20 is more of a structured program with direct help with Jake. There’s no secrets in BackTo20/20, and those four principles I mentioned in the video are really all I do. Jake has said 95% of what he’s written about on the blog are the edge cases that don’t apply to everyone. At least if I remember correctly.

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Cool. Thanks!

Also, did you find any info on UV protective lenses as an option ?

I’m ordering my glasses and thought about going for the standard ones which are 1.5 index lenses (recommended on the blog for below -2 sph) and include anti reflective coating and scratch.

The second option includes thinner lenses and a UV protective in addition to what’s included in the standard one. I checked again on the blog and I didn’t find anything about this. Should I go for UV protective too or just for the standards ones? Is it worth it ?

It’s not about the price but mainly about if it’s good for my eyes to get the UV protective option or maybe bad? I read in some books the two opposite so I was wondering if you knew anything about that?

I would go for the standard 1.5 (CR-39) lenses with premium coatings. I just had a pair made up with the Transitions photochromatic lenses and they’re really nice if you’re going to be wearing them outdoors (you are planning on spending a lot of time outdoors, right?)

For the places I’ve ordered from online the standard and premium coatings also block UV. I don’t think there’s any reason to order polycarbonate or higher-index lenses just for UV blocking. You’ll be getting much less UV than you would if you were walking around without glasses.

Some UV exposure is probably helpful for the emmetropization process, but it also also ages your eyes and skin so you don’t want to over-do it.

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UV lenses aren’t really going to make a difference. Haven’t looked into it though. Maybe UV is bad, I don’t know but wouldn’t be surprised if someone is making money there. 1.5 index lenses are the right choice.

People in the vision improvement sphere have a tendacy to make things more complicated than they need to be. I haven’t found a need for a 20-20-20 rule, a strong aversion to smartphones because they’ll damage your eyes or something. No self affirmations of positivity about my eyeballs or changing my diet. All the stuff I do is just, how can I make light rays converge slightly in front of my retina and avoid making light rays converge slightly behind my retina. The less of a chore it is the better. Differentials and distance vision are a must, but they’re related to the light rays thing above. Excessive screen time doesn’t appear to be an issue for me at least, but I won’t improve without also getting distance vision.

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The same thing happens in the fitness and diet world. Another 5 minutes in the gym lifting weights does more for you than a couple of weeks online searching for the ideal rep range for hypertrophy or the exact number of grams of protein you should take pre-workout.

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