Low-Myopia Puzzle

Okay, I’m turning myself in. I’ve held off kvetching about this here for weeks and weeks because I thought it must be temporary. But that doesn’t seem to be the case—at least not nearly as temporary as I want it to be.

My current normalized (-1.0) allow me to see 20/25 in good light that is not brilliant sunlight, and even 20/20 with a little effort (with a 3-meter chart). But put me in my slightly dimmed local sports bar or a well-lit church, for example, and all distance is a blur. The glasses are not, in those circumstances, a great improvement over my naked eyes.

Mind you, it’s not that I’m cripplingly blind in those situations. I can live with it pretty easily. It’s just that I’m flummoxed to figure out why the difference would be so extreme. I know, from my chronically avid attention to this forum and to the videos, that everybody experiences a diminution of accuity at night or on cloudy days, but I don’t have the impression that the rest of you experience the degree of discontinuity that has me stumped.

Am I wrong? Is what I’m experiencing normal for you folks?

Thanks for any help. (I repeat that I’m not suffering at all. I’d just like to understand better what’s going on with my peepers.)


I’m not there yet, but in that last set of normalized, I’ve heard reports that -1.50 is kind of the last one that’s been useful for some people. On at times, off at times. Below that for some reason doesn’t seem that useful. How was -1.25 for you?

Good question. But I don’t have a great answer because so much of -1.25 for me was during Covid lockdown (which was stricter here than in a lot of places), so I had little besides my apartment and my walks (I live by the sea and walk a lot) to go by. So my daily measurements were certain street signs, etc. Nobody was going to bars, churches, etc. I did go to the supermarket, but I left off my glasses for that, since (1) I could see what I needed to see without them and (2) they fogged up with the mask that was (and still is) required indoors.

It may seem excessively simple-minded, but three doors from my place, on the other side of the street, is a stationery store with this sign, below. Ever since I’ve been in Endmyopia and see this every day several times a day, I have made careful note of it with each new pair of normalized and also without glasses (for which I have to stand in the middle of the street to clear the blur), in all variations of light and weather. But it has been incredibly helpful as a way for me to assess my real-life progress. I have some other signs that I use similarly but fewer times per day.

Seems normal. Took me ages to get to -1 (at night). First to improve was day vision, then vision under cloudy conditions. Night time - can go out without correction, but works only if I’ve not looked at a phone screen for more than a few minutes. But there is blur.

What correction gives you 20/20 20/15 at night?

@Bianca pointed me to this : @Deano 's thread. Not endorsed by EM per se, but it may be worth trying it.
I am not in the low myopia range by any means, but I do seem to have better night/low light vision since I started to embrace the low light as a stimulus for improvement (e.g. going for a 20-30 minute walk in the dark every other day, and using that as a chance to see what all I can actually see). May not be able to do it when winter comes, but now it is a pleasant habit.

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When the -1 diopter range was in sight, I stopped wearing my glasses completely. Used to go for evening/ night walks sans any correction.

My issue seems to be that of less stimulus. Eyes need more doses of constant over-correction, especially at night.

I too have noticed that my normalized (currently -1.75, but also with previous stronger ones) give me way better clarity outdoors - even on dark and gloomy days - then indoors in supermarkets, offices or the hospital for example. I think the reason for this is the quality of the light, not the brightness. Outdoors on a cloudy day you still have natural full spectrum light, whereas those indoor locations usually have regular fluorescent or LED lights. So even if the brightness of the light seems comparable to the brightness on an cloudy day outdoors, the light spectrum will be very different on those locations.

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As I theorized already in a few topics in this forum I think AF can clear-up up to 1.5 diopter blur. But in usual conditions it means that you have around 1 diopter automatic / unconscious AF and you can consciously “boost” that with another 0.5 diopter. Most people equate AF only with this 0.5 D “boost”.

But in certain circumstances the unconscious part cannot activate. Or to be more precise the whole AF is harder to activate in certain conditions. But the unconscious part is more noticeable when missing, because in usual conditions you don’t notice that it’s working.
I theorize that it needs (relatively) high contrast to work easily, which is exactly what you miss when it doesn’t like to activate: when you have too much blur or when you are in low light conditions.

I also think this unconscious part can be trained to work better in low contrast too. The only thing you need is practice, ie.: actually be in low contrast conditions :slight_smile: I think that you don’t need any conscious practice, just do whatever you do and forget your eyes. I think by conscious practice you can only train the conscious part (hence most “eye training exercise” does not really help in the long run).

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I started my EM Journey at -1.5 spherical and -1.75 cylindrical in my weaker eye.

I decided to reduce spherical in .25 increments, and did so right down to -.25 spherical, and dropped astigmatism correction entirely at about -0.5 cylindrical.

For me, ability to see in low light really seemed to help a lot, as I got stuck at -0.25, and had distance blur when wearing Plano lenses, and no blur when not wearing glasses.

From my own thread that Bianca linked, I found a fix from an unlikely source, that allowed me to complete my EM journey.

I will post an update in that thread shortly, as have not been on EM forums for a while.

What I do believe tho, is that having ones eyes respond correctly in low light situations is equally important as regular EM observance, as suggested in my own personal experiences in getting ‘so low and close to 20/20’ and then finding I still had blur when wearing uncorrected lenses.

It was most frustrating indeed.
See my thread for a current update.

Wishing you all the best…

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I just had a vivid reminder of how crucial lighting can be. It’s a holiday in my town, so I had to walk through most of it to find a shop open to buy some food. I wasn’t wearing my -1.0 normalized. The brilliant sunlight made things so clear that I thought, “If my vision was always this good, I’d never wear glasses.” Then I got home, and the usual minor but pronounced indoor blur returned. It was just a little depressing.


When I first hit good sharp vision with no corrections on sunny days - but already all day not just in flashes - I thought that was the end of the EM journey, tick in the box. But then October arrived, I moved back from Spain to a gloomy place and started going to the theatre again. First ticket was a last minute one for a second balcony back seat (after a stressful day spent in a windowless office in front of screens) and I realised I was missing a lot on the faces on the stage as those were totally blurry. Had to use the theatre binoculars to enjoy the performance and consequently stepped back to -1D for the similar evening indoor big space programmes for the first winter. Since then the best-worst range has been reducing gradually.
While it can be disappointing after the excitement of no corrections (I know, I was a bit disappointed in my eyes for a few weeks back in 2019), in retrospect it is just part of the process.

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I purchased a proper handheld lux meter and was surprised to see that cloudy day outdoors was confirmed as lot better (I mean a lot!) in lux than well-lit indoors. So agree on the quality of light comment.


What you are describing is just normal -1.00 vision. It reminds me of where I was about a year ago. Good vision in bright day light, poor vision in low and artificial light.

Just keep at it, the last diopter is tricky. In those low light conditions don’t try to over do it. Focus your energy on the bright light conditions with sunglasses on high contrast objects. I found that to be easier and eventually my low light conditions improved too without noticing or even trying

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I experience exactly the same (I use 0.75 normalised). Last week I walked through the city in daylight without glasses with seemingly almost perfect vision, entered the church and could not recognise people a few rows in front of me… The same thing in all low lit indoor rooms, bars, clubs, etc… The difference is really huge. Also, when there is more light it is much easier for me to focus actively or get clear flashes, sometimes indoors I can not trigger it at all.

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I agree with you that acuity in dim light is MUCH worse than you would reasonably expect with the same glasses compared to good daylight. It can feel like a difference of a whole diopter