After my initial reduction from -5 to -4.5 I’ve had double vision for a year now that isn’t really going away. Jake says to just stare at an object till the images merge but i usually just get teary eyes and the images focus but don’t think it’s really my eyes that are fixing it but just the water clearing the images up. Do you blink or not when you’re staring at images? Any tips anyone can give with their experience on this topic?
there are alot of threads on this. alot of people going through the same thing.
One common things is that the initial reduction may have been too much and you might need to go up again before you go back down.
Do you have higher prescription glasses that you can check if you get double vision with those as well?
Yes my initial prescription still gives me double vision thought it’s considerably less and not really impacting my abilities to read far away. Should I just stick with high prescription till it clears up? What do you think? Do you have some other tips on how to make the images merge?
this is a good conversation about reducing and double vision between Jake and David. I found it really helpful.
I can’t say exactly what you should do. But what I can say is that spending a year with double vision means that you should consider going back up.
Other tips. There is some videos about using flourescent signs at night to help merge double vision. But the best is just good quality outdoor time with distance vision.
My “educated” guess is: you have dry eyes. Getting teary eyes is actually a very common symptom of dry eyes.
Consider trying stronger glasses again and using warm compresses on your eyes to see if alleviates those symptoms.
I think you’re trying too hard to clear things up.
Either keep enduring the sting or try an intermediate reduction.
The stinging sensation is not a bad thing, it’s a confirmation that you found Active Focus and are using the right muscles.
Over time the eyes will focus faster, sting less, and tear up less often. It all depend how conservative you want your approach to be. Some people can improve with easier challenges, others like me seem to need a little more blur and get well acquainted with the sting.
It may also be that I could smooth sail with less blur now that my ciliary muscles are in better shape, but since I can dedicate all days to active focus I may as well strike the iron while it’s hot.
Ultimately the only thing that matters is getting useful blur and achieving progress.
Everyone’s different. Find what works for you and keep getting gains.
If it happens with distance vision only, try looking at mid-distance instead of big distance.
One of the things that helped me was walking away from the Snellen, stopping at the last fully clear distance (the point where you don’t notice double vision or blur yet) and then adding another 5cms and bringing that image together and then gradually trying to increase the distance over the days cm by cm. Instead of trying to do it from 3m or 6m and just failing. I didn’t feel bad about going down to 1m for the start. You can do the same with a bookshelf and the titles of the books. You don’t have to measure the distance, just walk as far as the max clear distance and try adding some extra.
Oh yeah, and be very patient. needed with the double vision…
How are your close up habits? After several successful reductions, I still get double vision anytime I spend too much time in close up, even using differentials. Also, alcohol will do the same thing. If I drink several nights in a row, the double vision doesn’t clear until I off the booze at least a day and get fully re-hydrated.
Thank you so much. It’s been a little hard because of Covid but everything will hopefully go back to normal in the next month.
A little bad I would say. Since I’m enrolled in a Computer Science degree. But I try to alternate my time with some outdoor activities constantly. Is blinking or not blinking while staring important when you’re merging images?
I feel it’s pretty normal to get teary eyed when I’m staring without blinking for like 2 minutes straight. I don’t know. Jake says not to blink for as long as possible so I’m not really sure what to do.
Ok. Thanks a lot. I’ll try it. Which part of the snellen chart do you use. The bottom? Or somewhere in the middle? Also blinking or not blinking when you’re merging?
what? You’re not supposed to leave your eyes open for 2 minutes straight. Bad idea.
If your double vision is there for more than a year, it’s likely that it’s dry eyes.
Your cornea needs to be lubricated to keep a rounded shape, otherwise it gets rough and uneven and light scatters around instead of focusing in a single point
Blinking/not blinking won’t help you much. You probably produce enough tears, but the oil glands are clogged with bad oil that will make the tears evaporate a lot faster. Most common type of dry eyes.
That’s why you use a warm compress on the eyes, to melt those bad oils and unclog the glands.
I’d say I use the middle part (from the 4 letter line to the 6 letter line, explanation below), but to be honest I rarely do this with the Snellen chart, other than when I try to measure cms for improvement. On a daily level, I prefer bookshelves with books (different font sizes and colours - I just pick 3-4 books to practice and turn the front pages towards the room) and objects on the kitchen counter with labels. I just casually look at them while on a call with family members or while waiting for the water to boil, etc.
In general, I blink regularly.
When I’m doing this “walking away” I described, I keep blinking normal until I reach the blur, then I step closer back to the edge of clarity and stop blinking while I step another 5cms away again and I try to hold the same clarity there. When clarity disappears (if you are really on the verge of blur, clarity will disappear in a few seconds as the eye is getting dry due to lack of blinking), and then I blink and that typically brings the clarity back - at least once, but sometimes more than once.
My theory on DV is that images are moving apart / unmerged by a fixed distance regardless of the image’s size:
Lines 1 to 3: the fonts are too big, so the brain’s image processing department tends to correct the slight DV automatically and will tell you that the text is clear (even if not by eyesight only)
Lines 7 and up: the letters are too small and the DV can mean overlapping of letters ending up in a total mess that nobody wants to try to clear really
Quote from my gains update:
(note: DV is just a stage of blur clearance, so feel free to substitute blur to DV below)
What many people don’t realise is that Snellen is not perfectly sharp up to 20/20 (or 20/40 or whatever they claim clear) and then blurry. When you are looking at the Snellen it is blurry all the way equally on each line.
But the 0.5mm slight blur doesn’t disturb you at all with a 48mm tall letter (big letter E, 20/200 or -2.50D on the 3m-Snellen). Your brain even corrects it automatically and tells you there is no blur left there.
But the same 0.5mm blur on a 5mm letter (equals to the 20/20 line) is 10% off the target and is very disturbing, so brain says: sorry this is blurry, can’t read. And maybe on the 20/50 line with the 11mm letters and the same 0.5mm blur your brain says: I can “just read it” but it is blurry regardless.
So you reach true 20/20 when the blur is like 0.05mm on the 5mm letters of the 20/20 line. And then the brain corrects it automatically and tells you there is no blur left there. But 4 lines lower (if you still have them continuing to infinity) you can’t read the lines because the total height of the letters in that line may be 0.5mm only, and 0.05mm blur to 0.5mm means it’s blurry, and so on…
This is my theory or new eye-belief
Oh ok. Thank you. I don’t really have dry eyes. It’s just that I read the double vision megathread and jake said to keep your eyes open as long as possible. I’ll do better now hopefully. Thanks alot. Seems like I’ve been making a big mistake.
Huge thanks for your detailed explanation. I’ll work on it and hopefully give a positive update soon.
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A bit of unicorn farming opinion but as I have dealt (am still somewhat dealing?) with persistent ghosting, here goes nothing…
First, an important thing is to stay consistent. Try not to change your vision habits too drastically, like suddenly introducing three times as much distance vision or close-up time than before. Or using too many focal planes.
Second bit is where the unicorn farming really starts so, feel free to ignore it but it’s been key in my experience. Disclaimer: I am talking about (my experience of) persistent ghosting that lasts over a year, not of the “normal” re-calibration process of 1-2 months as part of a reduction process.
The thing is, ghosting is kinda one of those things that get worse the more you obsess over it. When you get worked up too much over it, worry that it’s going to stay there forever, or go out of your way to notice the double vision or look for it… I’m not sure exactly what it does, but my theory is that it is sending the wrong message to your brain. Like instead of letting your brain clear it up, you’re encouraging it to keep seeing it (or maybe even generating it). For me, becoming emotionally indifferent towards the ghosting has been extremely helpful. Being like “meh whatever” on days I have ghosting, and appreciating the clarity on days I don’t instead of worrying over the ghosting coming back. I can’t guarantee that it will be helpful to you, but it has made a great difference to me. I have like, less than half the ghosting I had in summer despite much worse close-up habits.
I suspect though that this is somewhat universal. Most people who have resolved DV successfully say that they don’t know what exactly made it go away. It makes me think that it went away when they were not paying too much attention to it.
I have the same experience with tears, but I don’t think it matters what causes the images to merge. I don’t think “water” merges double images on its own anyway.
When I do blink, usually the ghost image gets worse. I don’t do this exercise very often, and when I do and blinking makes the ghosting worse, I just stay patient and relax. It gets better with time, no need to be frustrated.
Thanks alot. I think lighting plays a huge part. I see considerably less ghosted images if there’s a good amount of sunlight. Also, could you explain your merging process a bit? Like does it merge right after you blink? Or do the images merge after some time after keeping your eyes open? Or something else perhaps?
I do it like when you’re trying to discover active focus. Outcome-independent. Not trying to achieve something specific, not having pre-conceived ideas of what should happen and when. Just stare at the real image, try to ignore the ghost one. I blink reasonably often. Not too often, but I don’t engage in staring contests with the object. Make it a form of meditation if you wish. It sometimes takes several minutes before it merges. Sometimes I give up before it does.