New to the EM Forum. Improving RE but stubborn LE

I started my journey to reduce my myopia in January 2021 after taking the red pill (reading Cliffgnu’s e-book was the first thing then I found EM). This is my newbie post as I only joined the EM Forum in the last week, so hello. I am 31 years old.

My progress below.

Early January: -6.75 and -7.00 (R and L respectively)
Late February: -6.25 and -6.75
Early April: -6.25 and -6.50
Last week: -5.75 and -6.75

The above were opto results by different opto’s. I have just ordered a trial lens kit.

As you can see, my RE is improving like a bloody legend but my LE is not happy. There was improvement initially in the LE, but now either no improvement or even getting a bit worse within the last 2 months. It probably did not help that since April, I have very likely been reducing too much for the left eye as I did not realise the imbalance between both eyes was worsening from 0.25 to 1.0 diopters!

Any advice on handling this would be greatly appreciated.

What I’m doing next is adjusting my norms and diffs for the newest eye baseline last week, so that I’m not reducing for one eye more than the other anymore (i.e. maintaining the 1 diopter difference). I read some advice from Jake that it’s best to reduce both eyes at the same rate first, get both eyes tuning in, then try to equalise. However I’m already wondering what to do next IF my RE continues to improve and leave the LE behind. We’ll see I guess, hope that does not happen.

I should mention my CYL is < 1.00 so I don’t put in anything in the CYL blank when ordering glasses or contact lenses.

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If you started in January and by opto measurement you were at a 0.25D difference between eyes, then I would step back to a correction that gives 0.25D difference between the eyes again and not more. You’ll thank yourself for this later.

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That’s a really good point @BiancaK.

Behavioral optometrists like to keep the correction in front of both eyes the same whenever they can. If you read the textbooks it’s actually a more “conservative” treatment strategy. @Hort007 once your trial lens kit arrives I’d check and see if you could keep the correction the same in both eyes. When the numbers start getting very different it can potentially mess up your binocular vision and ability for the eyes to work together effectively as a team. The image size from each eye is different and doesn’t line up as well if the eyes have different corrections. Yours are so close that you could probably just keep them the same as you make progress. (Maybe that won’t work, but worth investigating, for sure.)

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There has never been much difference between my two eyes, but when I was waiting for my first normalized to arrive, knowing that all the lenses I had (multifocal glasses and overprescribed contacts with one lense for distance and the other for close-up) were way off, and not needing differentials, I went around for a few weeks with a -2.75 contact in my right eye (which had been over-prescribed for my left eye) and nothing in my -2.00-measured left eye. I saw better than I had with my expensively prescribed glasses or contacts. So either my eyes were just unusually good at adjusting to the difference or I don’t understand all the worry about (temporary, we hope) incompatibility between two eyes.

Yes to this, slow down. It is so easy to get excited but don’t get a head of yourself. Unfortunately you have opened a large gap between your eyes now which is not ideal, it would have been better to wait out the left eye before reducing. Obviously you will have time to equalize later but in the future do wait it out the majority of your reductions should be binocular. Also this might help activate the left eye: Tag-In Method - YouTube

Thank you all for responding! I’d love to settle in equal diopters in both eyes eventually…

My test lens kit should arrive within a week so will update here after testing myself.

But assuming I do still find a 1.00D difference: To clarify from the responses above, particularly yours @BiancaK and @nycmao , should I then continue a 0.25D difference from now rather than 1.00D difference? That would mean wearing RE -5.50 (‘normalised’ glasses at -0.25 reduction) and LE -5.75 (only 0.25D difference from RE but will be a -1.00 reduction). I’m concerned this will make my weaker left eye even more ‘lazy’ and make the gap worse over time. Hence I was going to do what Lloydmom is suggesting - try to get a couple of binocular reductions in both eyes and ‘wait it out’, then equalise diopters later. Also thanks Lloydmom for the link, I will give this a try!

Thanks DirkVA for your input - I sure hope this diopter gap is temporary.

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I don’t know what would work best for you.

Once you get your test lens kit I’d try out the various options and see how they actually perform for you under real-world conditions. Based on what I have read and heard, I would try to keep the correction in front of both eyes the same (not -0.25 different, but the same.) Maybe starting from -5.75 in both eyes or -6 in both eyes. If that lets you see 20/40 or better in each eye, that (to me) seems like a reasonable place to start. If it’s giving you 20/10 vision in one eye (over-corrected with no hope for progress) and 20/50 in the other eye (too much blur) then the gap between eyes is probably too large to go for equal correction.

-5.75 diopters is 17.4 cm to blur
-5.5 diopters is 18.1 cm to blur (a difference of half a cm)

5mm is just a little lean or head tilt or having your chair off to one side or the other. The issue (if there is any) with unbalanced correction is you’re encouraging things to get a little off-center or out of kilter. I’m sure one leg is a little stronger than the other but you wouldn’t want one shoe to be 10% heavier than the other, or wear one thick sock and one thin sock.

If there really is 1D difference or more between eyes then perhaps you’re better off waiting it out and letting the chips fall where they may. The point is if they’re very close there’s some benefit to equalizing right now. If they’re not very close, that’s not the end of the world and might not ever cause any issues. Ideally you’d like have both eyes arrive at -3 at the same time rather than having one eye that’s -5 and one eye that’s -1, in other words you’d like the gap between eyes to get smaller with time rather than more unbalanced.

It could be that the axial length of both of your eyes is the same, and that the right eye no longer has cilliary spasm but the left eye is still locked up in close mode (and will eventually get un-stuck.) In the best case scenario you could start equalized and the left eye will unlock and catch up.

When you have your test lens kit you can spend a week or two trying different things and you should then have a much better sense of what’s going on and what your plan of attack should be. I’m sure it will work out OK no matter which route you end up going, no matter what you do there will be bumps in the road and unforeseen detours.

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Wow thanks so much for clarifying! I do appreciate there aren’t hard and fast rules for this kind of issue, but your comment is so helpful. I get what you’re saying - I’ll just have to try things out and see what works I guess.

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My thinking that you don’t have to accept is the following:

You had an official opto confirmed 0.25D difference between the eyes for several years before finding EM.
In January 2021 you found EM, you kept the small difference (quarter-half-quarter) until early April but then you pushed your eyes apart and you now have a full 1.00D difference between the eyes. You managed to achieve it within less than 2 months.
If you got from a 0.25D difference to a 1.00D difference within 2 months you have a very good chance that it is simply transient at the moment and you can quite easily go back to the 0.25D difference within the next 2 months.
Alternatively, you can run off with the now 1.00D difference and later try to equalise in 4 separate steps each lasting 4 to 6 months and success not guaranteed.

Your choice, my opinion.
I’ve always kept my team together, I didn’t let the monkey eye run ahead and leave the steady learner behind and switch off completely…

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Gotta double down with BiancaK here, you haven’t been in that larger gap long enough to have it locked in firmly. You would really benefit long term from not taking that forward with you, even if you cut it in half now and wait it out with some patching and tagging. Best Wishes whatever you decide.

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Thanks again @BiancaK and @Lloydmom! After reading through all the responses in this thread, now I’m seriously considering stepping back to a 0.25D difference between my eyes instead of a full 1.00D. That was the difference between my eyes before the sudden widening in the gap, so if I can get back to that, it would be a good thing.

However what still scares/confuses me about doing this is an article by Jake about unequal eyes, titled “The Dominant Eye: Don't Get The Wrong Prescription! - Endmyopia® - Improve Eyesight Naturally” - maybe I am misinterpreting what he said, but I thought his advice here is to stick with the difference until both eyes reduce a couple of steps at the same rate? So in my case, I’d wait for my eyes to drop from -5.75/-6.75 to - 5.50/6.50 then to -5.25/6.25, THEN try to equalise. This article says some scary things like I could lose depth perception if I lower the prescription for one eye to close the gap! Er, yikes?!!

I understand what previous replies have said about not encouraging the 1 diopter gap further, but that seems to conflict with what Jake is saying here, and hence leading to my worry and some indecisiveness about what approach I want to try first. In case you haven’t noticed, I’m super nervous because I already feel bad about messing up somehow and increasing the difference between my eyes. :disappointed_relieved:

[P.s. It seems on the internet these days everything needs a disclaimer, and it may be impacting what people say or not say… I take FULL responsibility for my own decisions and actions. I appreciate people taking the time to share their thoughts/suggestions in case it helps.]

This advice from Jake would give about this diopter gap would be to a gap that has been firmly established, If you would like to be more conservative you would probably do well not to try to close the newly formed gap in one shot but it still seems like a good idea not to let the big of a gap get established. In the end you just gotta make a choice and be ready to step back should it not go as well as hoped. I do think the tag-in method will help smooth that transition though.

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Thanks Lloydmom! Ok that does clarify the issue for me :slightly_smiling_face: I hope my eye difference isn’t established yet… I do feel reluctant to close by the 1 whole diopter, as my left eye would have very large blur in its current state. But am comfortable taking a small step (half a diopter) plus making the tag in method a habit, so going to try this compromise and see if things improve.

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I think you are making a good call there. Remember to wait for both eyes in the future, one is always going to take longer but you only complicate things for yourself if you don’t hold out and wait for it to catch up. Best wishes.

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Afternoon update/conclusion: Given this thread so far and reading of any EM articles I could find on equalising, I was trying to work out if I now need to buy 1 or 2 new pairs of glasses (i.e. new normalised or new differentials or both). To be honest I’m getting tired of over-thinking and worrying over small differences - I think @jakey would call it ‘monkeying’ with the numbers, which feels about right at this point… Being a slight hypochondriac is so much fun :upside_down_face:

Then I just found my second pair of differential glasses which are -5.50 and -5.75, reflecting my ‘original’ 0.25D difference between my eyes.

Compared to my current ‘full strength’ baseline (-5.75 and -6.75), that means a 0.25D reduction for my RE and 1.00D reduction for my LE.

Wearing this pair of glasses would be in line with some of the thread replies here = to go back to a correction that is 0.25D difference since it seems more likely/hopeful that my current 1.0D difference hasn’t become firmly established. I said in my last post I will try a conservative ‘small step’ of closing the gap by half a diopter, but since I already have these glasses, I may as well use them. I can’t get new ones instantly anyway, they take 2 weeks to deliver.

My next practical question was should this pair work as normalised or differentials or wear this one pair all the time for a while… I think I will just wearing this pair all the time for now, start doing regular active focus and tag-in method, and monitor my eyes for the next 4-5 weeks. I do a lot of laptop work for about 40 hours a week, but otherwise I do a bit of walking/hiking too. Wearing these glasses, I hope my left eye will unlock and start to close the gap.

Will update here as and when progress (or god forbid, regress) occurs.

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I think your old differentials that you’re going to use as new normalized sound too strong (too much minus) to use in front of the laptop now. Maybe something like -4.75 would be better in front of the computer. The idea with the differentials is to give you enough of a “diopter bubble” to see to your screen and your desk and not much further, so that your eyes aren’t accommodating hard all day long in front of that laptop screen. If you can see out the window and down the street with those glasses, they’re way over-powered for looking at a laptop for 8 hours a day.

Anyway, they should work fine for the couple of weeks you’re waiting on the mailman to deliver your new glasses. If you have a pair of -5 or -4.75 lying around somewhere that you can use in front of the laptop I’d use those instead.

Edit: I have a feeling your left eye is going to catch up to your right eye really fast. I’m guessing the right eye’s cilliary spasm is unlocked already and the left eye is still stuck in close-up mode. Just a hunch.

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Hey @nycmao, I get your point… I do have another pair at RE -5.25 / LE -5.50 which is another -0.25D jump down, therefore marginally better for close up work. (I got them with this current pair since it was so cheap to buy 2 using a discount code at the time.)

My thought process was that I’m willing to slow/stop progress on my RE (just not get worse) to let my LE catch up, then reduce both at same rate. With my current old differentials, there’s still a -0.25D reduction so at least my RE won’t be looking at screens or books through ‘full strength’ lens (and hopefully better eye hygiene habits like 20/20/20 breaks and AF will help be nice to it). At the same time, my LE gets -1.00D reduction which doesn’t feel like too little or too much, and hopefully it unlocks or ‘un-spasms’ and will improve to match the RE.

Hope that makes sense. It seems like a catch 22, but I don’t want to put my eyes through too much by using the other glasses resulting in a -0.50D reduction on my RE and -1.25D reduction on the LE, when the current goal is equalising… I suppose I could wear the -5.25/-5.50 glasses for laptop work and the -5.50/-5.75 for other stuff, but the difference is so small, it doesn’t seem worth the added complication?

Thank you @nycmao! [edit: yes I do hope it’s a matter of getting my LE to un-spasm. I rushed things while not paying enough attention after the excitement of my initial progress - I’ve learned my lesson now]

Any and all further feedback is welcome. Cheers guys

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I think you do not quite understand differentials. You really do need them, As @nycmao suggests you will be ok short term as you wait for the differentials, but do order some. In the meantime you can keep working on the better habits and engaging the left eye. I agree with @nycmao on the probability that you have a one sided release of spasm, the other should follow, though that will be made more challenging by being over corrected in your near work. Maybe try to maximize your distance from your screen as much as possible while you are waiting on the diffs.

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Thanks Lloydmom! I was wondering about differentials and glad to see your response, though either way I have to wait two weeks for anything to arrive and wear my current old differential glasses, what a pain! I’ll need to find time today to order them.

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No time like the present to get in the habit, they are a very important part of the path forward so don’t neglect them.

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