Seeing multiple LED lights at night

So I understand the whole concept of the visual cortex merging LED lights when double vision occurs however it seems I can only do this during the day in decent lighting whereas at night I experience the same sensation where the lights shift around and it seems my visual cortex is trying to resolve the image but they NEVER combine into one. The worst case scenario seems to be green traffic lights during poor lighting situations I see multiple lights (maybe 7-8) from a faraway distance and it seems my visual cortex is just completely unable to resolve this. I also have the same affect on all other LED lights at night the green traffic lights is just the most pronounced example.

Currently I’m not wearing correction and measuring 20/;20 in ideal lighting scenarios it seems this is the final roadblock to true 20/20. Anyone had any similar experiences or have any tips in resolving this?

Have you gotten checked to know if you have astigmatism? being diagnosed with it doesn’t necessarily mean you have true astigmatism and it might just be the transient kind people get when their vision is improving but in any case knowing your refractive state helps, it also might be a case of higher order aberrations which I read is normal, what I think happens is that some small amount of myopia (0.25 for example) can exacerbate the aberrations that would normally be small and hard to notice.

The challenge is probably too much for your visual cortex so it can’t resolve it, I find that the ghosting from LED lights that I sometimes see during the day (not outdoors, indirect sunlight indoors) tends to lessen or even merge sometimes on it’s own but at night they don’t budge, mine are caused by astigmatism but sometimes i get extra ghost images, there’s one that appears in the upper right of the main image sometimes and that one doesn’t merge either because the challenge is too much.

I’d say that since you can see 20/20 in ideal lights start measuring in unideal conditions, you shouldn’t expect to see as well in low lighting either way and at the end of the day I think it’s best to be okay with some minor aberrations, especially if they’re quite far away, I still have a long way to go until I can claim I can see 20/20 in normal lighting but once I get to 20/20 in good lighting and 20/25 in not so good lighting I’ll call it good.

Yeah I’m pretty certain that I have the transient astigmatism that people often report on the last diopter. I don’t believe it’s true astigmatism because I didn’t have any double vision and was never corrected for cylinder prior to improving my eyesight.

I’m quite happy with where my eyesight is currently after coming all the way from -1.75 in both eyes. The main reason I want to address it is because I feel like it’s causing some level of disorientation and strain when driving at night but also to put this whole eyesight improvement journey behind me and to finally not have to rely on lenses in any situation at all.

How long has it taken you to go from -1.75 to you present happy state (to ask the “howz long, bro” obvious question)? It’s hard for some of us further back in the trenches not to be really curious about the people who are so near the “finish line.”

I have intermittent undefinable changing astigmatism like issues.
I found these instructions with this pic useful.
And this is a good technique, “dunking” or “scanning along the lines” with the same pic, too.

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Astigmatism is usually worse at night, the pupils open much wider so you lose the “pinhole camera” effect that makes focus easier.

There are some astigmatism eye exercises from the Bates people that are kind of interesting-looking. (I have no idea whether or not they work but they seem like might be useful in the same way that “warming up” before the gym can be useful.) Put it up on the screen or TV and get far enough back that you start getting some astigmatism (the rings or lines or fans start looking messed up.) Then see if you can focus on the thing and “clear” it (maybe take a step or two forward) and scan the whole thing with your eyes. Then maybe take a step or two back and see if you can do it. I’m pretty sure I usually just scan left-right and my astigmatism problem is with the vertical lines, so it might be useful. If you’re outside you could scan the horizon or from the top of trees to bottom of trees or buildings or whatever. Things like street lights or traffic lights are a weird angle I rarely look at (compared to say computer screens) so I can see how the brain is kind of glitching-out trying to process stuff that rarely gets looked at.

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Cheers for the ideas and exercises guys I’ve tried this kind of stuff before and it definitely helps with mild double vision however I don’t feel it’s effective for reducing the type of poly vision I’m experiencing when looking at LEDS at night. The go to might just be to wear some kind of mild spherical correction at night and slowly reduce my night vision correction so there’s less of a jump for the visual cortex.

I also have some remaining axial elongation confirmed by a biometry each eye is (OD 26.34, OS 26.06) so it’s possible that it’s just a matter of time and stimulus for the distortion when looking at LEDS in poor lighting to disappear.

Took a freaking long time mainly because i’m a screen addict also I had a poor understanding of the science and the method itself. I started in late 2018. If I had done everything properly and actually found some outdoor distance activates other than going for walks I would probably be 100% free of refractive error by now.

Cyl measurements can be a challenge and I’m glad this alternative approach has been of assistance, to some users.

Since i’ve done a pretty poor job explaining I decided to create this image to give a bit more clarity excuse the poor photoshop but generally an accurate visual example of what I’m experiencing and mean by multiple LEDS or polvision. astig

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Uh.
I started from around -2D and at 20/20 without corrections now.
I only have such image when I am totally exhausted and my eyes are absolutely relaxed (and they wander without any coordination) and I just gaze in the distance. But it doesn’t happen very often.

LEDs are still challenging but I only have 2 or 3 sharpish or blurry ghosts that I consider semi-normal.

I wonder what an opto measurement would give you for this? Low SPH high CYL? or something completely different?

By the way: as you approach the traffic lights, is there a point when the green lights merge again?

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Yeah if I get close enough the lights start to shift around and eventually merge. I think I’ve probably just been overchallenging my visual cortex by trying to stare and merge too many ghosted lights from way too far away. Tonight during a night time walk I decided to do some experimenting and found if I just slightly challenge my visual cortex maybe 3-4 different LED images and stand and stare for awhile eventually the ghosted led lights will merge into one.

The last optometrist I went to tried to give me cylinder when I described the ghosting I was experiencing despite the fact I could see 20/30 uncorrected obviously I refused.

Was it high cyl? Or just the usual “I have no idea what I’m doing but 0.25D or 0.5D will not harm and may even help” type?
I guess the opto also proposed 0.5D SPH to give you 20/15?

Yeah it was the classic -0.5 cylinder both eyes. -0.75 sph in my dominant eye and she wanted to go after high as -1.5 sph in my non-dominant eye which would have been an overcorrected 20/15. Of course I had no intention of actually buying glasses there since I’m comfortable measuring my own eyesight it was more just out of my own curiosity to what an optometrist would give me if I was totally ignorant.

Stick with what works :+1:
With 20/30 uncorrected vision I wouldn’t buy into such a complex total BS prescription either :roll_eyes:

Yeah I think I’ll probably just not use any correction at all and see if my biology will adapt on its own and hopefully my visual cortex will sort all this LED ghosting. Anyway i’ve already passed the DMV and got the correction requirement removed from my license so already approved to drive at night so not doing anything dangerous or illegal.

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It looks like your visual image is worse than what I see uncorrected. I’ve been really happy with some goggles4u $5 glasses that I’ve had made up in a couple of different strengths. I’ve found that -0.25 CYL in each eye (on each eye’s axis of astigmatism) lets me clear it right up (more than I can do naked.) You might make up a couple of pairs of glasses maybe with -0.25 CYL and -0.25 SPH and just -0.25 CYL just so you can do the “zero diopter reset” or have some kind of totally clear baseline image to work from. You can do the trick of using the glasses like an answer key to see what it’s supposed to look like. Look at an antenna on top of a building without glasses, and then peek through the glasses to see if you’re seeing it right. For $20 or $30 at one of the online places you could have a couple of different strengths to experiment with.

I’m glad I did because I think I was starting to get “astigmatic blur adapted” or forgetting what the real world is supposed to look like with perfect vision. It’s helpful to have some kind of reference to compare to once in a while.

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I have considered this but I think adding cylinder may do more harm than good in my situation since i’ve never really been corrected for it even prior to working on reversing my myopia. I think I’d rather just go higher for spherical if I was going to get a pair for reference clarity.

If you’re getting continual improvement and not getting stuck I can see how it makes sense to just keep doing what you’re doing. I agree that using lenses at all is a slippery slope.

I’ve never had a pair of prescription glasses in my life until two months ago, and it’s interesting to see how much garbage the astigmatism was putting into the image. The optometrist put -0.25 SPH into the prescription but I don’t need that at all. -0.25 CYL in each eye makes it perfect at night. There is a lot of stuff I can read at full distance without any astigmatism correction at all, but totally uncorrected it’s kind of like reading a captcha. The image is kind of annoying instead of beautiful.

Once the myopia is completely gone if you still have some astigmatism sticking around I’d suggest getting a couple of pairs of “astigmatism only” glasses just so you have a clear image of what you’re shooting for. I certainly wouldn’t wear them all the time or indoors or anything like that. But for $20 it’s worth it to see if you’re seeing the best possible version of the image or the cluttered version. With your streetlight example it’s obvious that it’s not getting rendered properly, but as the image degredation gets more subtle I think the “reference check” pair of glasses is a valuable tool.

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Yeah not surprised that you had the experience with the unnecessary spherical correction optometrists tend to always overcorrect in my experience too.

I get what you mean about astigmatism adding garbage it’s super frustrating to have my vison just slowly deteriorate as the lighting gets worse late in the day. Perhaps I would benefit from a bit of cylinder I’m just worried it’ll confuse my visual cortex even more while uncorrected and make the reversal process take longer.

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