Topics: The Next Le Secret Meeting? (Anti Vaxxer Conspiracies?!)

Yup. Currently the mainstream view is that the human body needs constant pampering because otherwise it would broke down. While the truth is the opposite: the human body would work wonderfully if we would allow it, and would not break it. It’s a really ugly face of capitalism (where the whole economy is based on selling more and more products) which is pretty much hidden or undiscovered nowadays.


I am with you on the body working well on it’s own and adapting as it can. Right now I’m very into how to maintain microbiome of bacteria on the surface of the skin. I’d love to see that as a topic, and see people’s experiences with how letting that come into balance would change a host of modern ‘diseases’


Although we really need a tropical climate and lots of area to roam without running into other tribes to avoid some of the issues modern amenities resolve. Clothing for warmth, shoes to keep out parasites, buildings to keep other humans away from our possessions…

1 Like

Those have existed far longer than industry or modern society though. Clothes and buildings have been around for millennia. They are part of human nature by this point (I’m not sure the “wild” ideal is really the only healthy/natural option for humans). Toothpaste was not a thing until last century. Now dentists advise to regularly brush your teeth with toothpaste containing fluoride (a dangerous chemical) to avoid tooth decay even though humans have always had strong, indestructible teeth (spoiler alert: the true answer to tooth decay is simply don’t give your kids sugar. But why make people stop buying sweets when you could make them buy the sweets and the toothpaste)

Capitalism is based on convincing people they need new things, and if they truly don’t, then it’s easy enough to make them need them. A lot of “self care” products are so harsh they make the body respond just as aggressively in a way that makes them necessary to keep the balance. Now a lot of people cannot realistically stop using shampoos because they’ve been using them every day all their life and now the scalp is just used to producing ten times as much sebum to compensate. Or deodorants. I don’t know what they put in the stuff, but I’m pretty sure those who use them regularly truly need them more than the others.


That’s what I would call Level-4 active focus. Im glad to see others have gotten there.


I’ve experienced the wim hof method first hand. After that experience, I’m willing to explore all kinds of crazy naturist avenues.

1 Like

Interesting, have you stopped using soap and use products like motherdirt mist? Pretty much most soap found commercially kills the skin microbiome. Is that what you find to be true as well?

This is cultural, not truly necessary. Health wise having oil in your hair is not a problem, it just doesn’t work with the current standard of beauty. There was a time when men put oils in their hair to hold stiffer hairdoos, the entire tradition of putting little doilies on the backs of chairs was to keep the excess hair oil off the upholstery.


If your mind can’t process something, your body will. If your body can’t handle something, your mind will. So the key to physical therapy is to guide you in building a body that can handle things, and the key to psychological therapy is guiding you in the processing process.

I talk about this a bit in the discord too there’s definitely a connection between being results-driven/anxious, and not being able to AF. Processing/circumventing the future-oriented feelings, and becoming more in the present is key.


I agree, there is nothing wrong with oil in the hair, that’s where the oil is supposed to be. But I think there is a healthy amount of oil to have. Normal, healthy hair does not look greasy even if it has not been shampooed in weeks, because the skin and the hair absorb that oil. (that’s why brushing is good for people with oily roots. Just get it distributed evenly and it won’t be a problem)
When the hair is so oily it sticks together and to the skin, it is probably a sign of excess production.


The book I just started by Nick Ortner mentions him… it would seem we are treading similar paths.


Haven’t touched shampoo in a decade or more for regular use - except the occasional hippie soap after some funky ocean kiting time, or otherwise as specifically needed.

Island now, haven’t worn shoes since I got here, more than a week.

Capitalism and tech and things have some amazing advancements. Imagining that many of them are mandatory seems to be a potential fallacy.


My hair is closer to the “standard of beauty” since I don’t wash it with shampoo. When I used shampoo it was always greasy to touch practically after 12-16 hours. Since I don’t use it, there is no greasy touch.

I think the “comfortable” range for humans are much larger than tropical climate even without civilization. There were settlements in Scandinavia as far back as 11.700 years ago. Sure, you need buildings and you need tools. But homo sapiens evolved with tools, its preceder, the homo erectus, already used tools. And there were definitely clothes in use at least 170.000 years ago (check “Clothing” section here: ). So you cannot really say those are modern things :slight_smile:

But yes, you are right that some objects are definitely needed for homo sapiens to live a comfortable life. What I wanted to say that the number of those objects is much lower than suggested by public opinion and also the number of the objects required to be healthy (and clean) is much-much lower.


I dream of living off grid, in an earthen house or something, growing my own food and remember how to just be human rather than a consumer. Doubt I ever will actually do it. But in my imagination I go there often.


Meanwhile, I am the kind of person who thinks “if you didn’t leave a message, clearly you don’t require a call back”. :no_mouth: If I ever get a missed call from you, I will know better.

Also, for your ‘First AF experiences chat’, sounds like there is you, hopefully @jakey would be in (I’d love to hear how he worked it out too) and @Pixiemom - that should be enough for a really great chat! (I am not volunteering for this one as my first AF video is pretty much already this.). You could still have one more, but I reckon 3 would be a good vibe. Hope you are organising it behind the scenes already!


Ask me in a year or so -than I might have something. My astigmatism is in the cornea and I don´t have a clue if that kind is easier or more difficult to handle. But I will try. :smile:

While it’s not earthen house, but definitely off grid, just saw it yesterday:

Now, that’s the neighborhood I like :smiley: And they are not even far from town if anything is needed, so pretty much would be ideal location for me :slight_smile:


This kind of life is overrated. The modern life gives us the chance to to further technology and work on mental tasks rather than just surviving day-to-day. If you had to do everything yourself in nature you wouldn’t have time for any mental work. I think you can avoid being a dumb consumer even in the modern world. Get the best of both worlds, spend time in nature but enjoy modern benefits


Some of us are simply not compatible with chronic stress and noise/light pollution, personality-wise. Also no one said to go back to the stone age. You can definitely live in nature and make money by working remotely on computers. Yes, it will require a lot more work, but our bodies are made to move all day long and will have energy to spare. Plus a lot of people in the cities are just surviving day-to-day, working on a job they hate just to pay bills and rent. They probably don’t have a lot of opportunities to do creative work.