Wasted 4 months..Starting again

Yeah I agree…I will measure and see.

That’s great.Hope I will be there too🙂.

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Now I understand better, I think the optometrist corrected you to 20/20 or fairly accurate. This AF you don’t need to be actively doing it for hours. The key is the right stimulus for the clear flashes to occur and the tolerance to some “blur” in the distance less affected in the day. Mostly in the evening or low light situations. Active focus is quite subconsciously the brain processing until a need arise and you get that clarity. Then you get back to normal baseline vision after a few mins, you begin to realise this wasn’t so clear but not totally blur either. AF is working on that to get clearer and permanent after months the eyes adapting to it. Just my take of it.

For books, I think you are 2 corrections away to be comfortable, coming from a similar correction in my stronger eye so you should adapt better. You probably can try after your this -1.75 as suggested by Bianca, so you have one less focal plane to deal with as Jake often emphasize…

Yea, even for chat apps like whatsapp can be done on the laptop too.

Gd job Bianca in helping others and explaining well to gaurav. Look forward to be at your level in reducing my myopia. It should be so exciting…

Actually,with -3.25 there was lot of blur.I needed to blink a lot to clear it otherwise it wouldn’t get clear.I was frustruated.I used to get lot of headaches.So for the first month I devoted my time doing AF.But I couldn’t tolerate those headaches and eye pain.So I stopped doing AF.

But the problem still continues with -3.50.Not intensely.This time as there is more clarity…I do exactly what you described as AF.In relaxed manner.I love this blur challenge.But sometimes,even if I am just looking in the distance without much effort,in relaxed manner…I get headaches.So I skip doing AF and go to sleep.

Is it normal to experience this?Did you go through this?

And thank you so much for your help.:blush:

Check this post, my view on selecting the distance for AF correctly.
You mentioned last year that you managed to convince the opto to give you lower prescription, so maybe you are not corrected to 20/20 but only to 20/25 or 20/30 (vs. most people are corrected to 20/15 or 20/13 by optos)
There are no bad glasses for AF just incorrectly selected distances for AF :wink:

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Gaurav, on your question of eye pain and headaches, my short answer is no to both. At most, with the AF if you do a lot, you get just dry eyes where you moist it a little with water. I think the headaches is because your eyes telling your visual cortex this is not working or its trying too hard and the frustration it gets should be worse in low light. You will know the normalised is not suitable, when you walk and the faces you walk past just don’t come into focus. The direction signboard on streets should be clear 50m away, By the way, Do you have a snellen at 3m?

Yes, this does happen as we get ahead of ourselves in endmyopia as Bianca suggested. My guess is you may tell the optician you want reading glasses and with the marketing gimmick from lens manufacturer material on anti fatigue glasses just +1.25 to your full prescription. So as you are new to this, you get the headaches as visual cortex suddenly having to work so hard so its always gd to be conservative for the encouraging first step. I know its not right for me to recommend prescription as you know best. For now, you may want to have a chat with your optician what was his recommended prescription for you. You can also get free lens replacement within 2-4 weeks that will suit you better as its standard practice to offer that service from what I know.

Just letting you know the pitfalls. Based of what you describe I think without AF you are barely getting 20/40 but with this program it has to be within your comfort zone to enjoy the experience while you make gains…

You might like to check out Mark Warren’s “Myopia Is Mental” website. His free basic guide has been super helpful to me.

His belief are principles of the bates method. I’ve seen some of his videos and not convinced. @Reannon just to bring to your attention if the post is appropriate.

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I was also wondering about if this is allowed… I moderate on Facebook, a little less clear on Forum rules @Laurens how are we handling that? Beyond that I find it strange that so many Mark Warren fans still end up here, and in this case it’s the individual’s first post…
As for Mark Warren he has a lot of drive, but not much substance to his angle, he promises faster results by super simplifying a complex system, and seems to spend copious amounts of energy detracting from EM while not offering much in return. Just my opinion. But there is something distinctly off about people promoting him to the EM crowd…

@Reannon @Edison21
I am sorry if my post was a problem, my intent was not to subtract from EM, but to add info or an additional take on the subject that might be helpful to some. I have been following EM for longer than Mark Warren, and EM is by far the largest wealth of information I have found on the subject of ending myopia. We are all heading towards the same goal, and therefore I feel we can all learn from each other.
In June 2020 my prescription was R. -3.50, L. -3.25, Cyl. -.50 in both, and these corrected my vision to about 20/13. In my first reduced pair (August 2020) I dropped the Cyl altogether and equalized both eyes to -2.25.
Earlier this year I was getting perfect clarity with these, so I dropped to -1.50. Now I wear these glasses mostly only when I have to, like for driving, and go without glasses most of the time. I constantly challenge my visual distance to infinity, as I am so often rewarded with periods of clarity.
If my above post was out of line, please accept my apology, I do not wish to offend anyone.


The concern lies in the fact that Mark Warren’s practices are fairly contrary to EM practices, so recommending him to someone who is trying to learn and implement EM is an odd choice. And although it would seem our goals are the same it is hard to see him recommended on the EM forum since he is someone who has come out fairly forcefully at times as very much anti EM…

@Reannon He is actively anti EM, true. But I don’t think his practices are so different. I think what he presents as his technique is a mix of EM, Bates, vision therapy, posture, soft eye, etc. He picked from the best available, just notoriously skips referencing them. And to make himself different he calls close up as tunnel vision, active focus as automatic focus, etc.

@Lucy your first post was puzzling I must admit. I’m glad you came back with an explanation and with your journey.
How long can you hold clarity? You had huge drops, I wonder what your average acuity is. Do you feel OK and confident/ comfortable without glasses? Can you read street or shop signs or number plates? At what distance? Are you checking your vision on Snellen? Or have you been to an opto since you started reductions?

I have to admit Mark Warren’s idea of switching between objects at different distances is something I do regularly. I also experimented with rocking at one point. And I won’t deny that mindset is very important.
At the same time I’m very sceptic about his story of the person with -16D focusing for 45 minutes and then getting clear flashes. I don’t think that can give a good quality daily life. And I do believe he is just N=1 that either works for others or don’t. But no doubt, getting rid of overcorrection and training the eyes to coordinate better and also to relax them will give anyone at least 1 diopter gain.

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This isn’t original to him either in my opinion, I do this too and was already doing it when Mark Warren hit the scene. It is true that a lot (probably all) of his stuff is a mix from EM and other things but then he actively discredits the same methods he pulls from. He actually has made statements discrediting close work as myopia inducing, insists axial elongation is not a real element in myopia and he is a big fan of wearing glasses as little as possible regardless of myopia level, so yeah more than a bit contrary to EM. And he also like “I don’t do reduced lenses or measuring” then tells people to reduce if they like but he won’t tell them how much and since he has no means to determine how much it’s just a free for all I guess…

Big time this is an issue for me, if you are going to repackage other people’s ideas and sell them at least site some references and not go out of your way to tear down your un-named sources. Maybe the primary reason I take issue with him summed up there.

No doubt! It’s the after this point most methods fail to stack up.

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Yes…Thanks For clearing my doubt.I used to AF beyond my blur horizon.I used to always look at the longest distance.That’s where I went wrong.

I got my diffs of -1.50.When I wore them while using my laptop,It was much clear.So should I practice AF by pushing the screen far?

As far as my phone is concerned,no matter how far I hold it,its always clear.


When we reduce by 0.25,it means that the blur horizon will be 4m,right?So is it possible that I should be able to see something clear 50m away? Yes,I can see some of the things clearly at that distance.I haven’t checked the signboards yet.I will check it.


Now that sounds good :blush: Welcome to a brand-new part of your journey.

Yes, if you can increase the distance then you can gradually do it. Always remember to stay around the edge of blur, but don’t just let yourself struggle with unclearable blur.
I have a separate keyboard so I could always increase up to 90 or 100cms. And then you can drop to a correction again that will allow you just about 55cm and repeat the same.

Yes, your arm is the limit so the phone is always well within your distance to blur with differentials planned for screen. You won’t damage your eyesight with a minimal unavoidable smart phone time, but keep it as little as possible. Watching movies or reading posts are definitely not recommended on a tiny screen.

Keep us updated.

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As under the sun the direction board on streets is illuminated which makes it easier to see from distance. I suggested that because when doing the snellen reading from 3m or 6m, there is a tendency to use active focus so it may influence you to move on to a new correction but that’s not a progress. It just induce more blur. I thought of the mistakes I made in the past, I observe the change on improvement as it should have been if I had not done the unnecessary drop. Just to highlight so you are made more aware. If with the drop, clear flashes need to appear but the sharpness and size has some difference.

On the 4m edge to blur its hard to do in endmyopia, you need to be so accurate 20/20 in low light measurement for the size 12 font to be clear from 4m away.

Yes, this journey shouldn’t hinder your everyday life for daytime distance vision.

Thanks for explaining to us Lucy and upfront. Basically its his plagiarism of ideas from sources and doesn’t credit anyone. Then the banging of slowness without explaining how he has actually progress or when he’s glasses free, he just sort of progress -1.5 to be glasses free in his opinion… He just provide too much optimism are my concerns, if someone above -5 diopter might feel frustrated and his exaggeration claim it can happen in a very short space of time to be without glasses.

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Yeah I will tell you how it’s going.

I have some questions…

For the first month we need to wear diffs,and then we have to start with norms.So I have both diffs and norms now.So should I spend more time diffs first or should I use both to challenge my eyes?

I am not sure whether I am using my diffs correctly.I don’t know where is the edge of blur.How should I use them as a beginner?How much time should I spend for pushing focus?How do they help in reducing ciliary spasm?

Sorry if I am asking lot of questions…


Use diffs anytime you are in static close up, the reduce ciliary spasm by decreasing the focusing strain (covered pretty well in the 7 day guide). As far as using your edge of blur look for where it is only just less than perfect and that is your edge. Use Normz for everything else, mix in lots of distance vision time and as long as you are trying to see better instead of embracing the blur you are on track. There is no set time frame to AF you should always be pushing back blur, the key is only have a little bit so it isn’t a terrible amount of strain and work.