Ways to improve to get first reduction?

Hello all,

Mery here with my first update. I think this is my first time starting a post. So following the posting guidelines, some of this is a repeat from my intro.

  • Tell us your centimeter and Snellen measurements

My current cms are about R16.5 sometimes, and L25.

R is up from 15.24 from when I started (May 2019), L is same.

With the indoor chart, same as old measure R 20/50 (barely) and L 20/40 in my contacts. I stay in a basement and don’t have a way to get real good lighting, but a 100watt over the chart. I changed my desk lamp to be stronger light.

I’ve always been and still have -0.25 undercorrected, with no astig correction though I have astig. So I wear normalised contacts, with +1.25 for screens, +2.0 for reading, and have differentials for when no contacts. Optha said I have low macular degen and cataracts which could make some blur but not alot. No treatment needed for either.

  • What have you done so far?

Taking walks with AF whenever I can, and also paying lots of active attention to extremely clear surroundings, since I’d been blur adapted. Doing AF on walks, at the computer, reading.

Taking many short outdoor breaks every day (I have music students coming in, so between teaching) with AF on street signs, trees, plants, license plates etc. This plus active clear focus are my biggest new habits, and I feel like AF has become a habit! but sometimes I forget to purposely think about it.

Patching to strengthen my R (thanks to Bobby!). I kindle read/AF every night with only my real eyes + patch.

I just spent a week away in the mountains mid July with no computer, and only 5 minutes a day on texts, no other screens or reading. I did AF outdoors all week. No measurements changed when I got back. I was so disappointed.

Doing cm measure is still real depressing, but I found last night that if I wait ~15 minutes with no lenses and -then- measure, my R eye is better. Otherwise the measurements are unchanged.

  • What do you want to do next, and why?

I want to get my R eye closer to the same clarity as the L, and to improve enough to push the computer screen back (I won’t need new differentials till the screen is all the way back). I want to spend longer AF “moments” cos maybe I’m not giving myself enough time to clear up blur.

  • What’s your question about it and where do you need help exactly?

-When I’m walking outside, I love watching signs and license plates clear up as I get closer, but stopping for 30 seconds obstructs the footpath and there’s no real place to move aside (slanted verge). So I stop for maybe 5 seconds every so often. I haven’t seen anyone talk about this - how to do AF while on a walk since you’re always getting closer to the signs?

-Am I doing the right things… should I change something? I’ve never done “both eyes” measurements - what’s the purpose of that?

Anecdote - I was at the Chinese the other night when a little boy showed up, with a very cool sky blue patch on his glasses. I told him I loved his patch, and that I patch every night. I hope it made him feel good.

Thanks in advance for any tips. I know I mustn’t give up.

I hope it’s ok that I made this a new post. I’m seeing a “your topic is similar to” notice as I type.


Are you sure this is -0.25 undercorrection? it looks more like -0.5 or even more.

I think it’s probably correct, because my indoor lighting is rather poor. My optometrist knows about AF. She taught me to do AF in the exam room because full correction has always been intolerably strong for me. Especially any astig correction, that made me seasick so I don’t have any. She feels the macular degen and cataracts are making some blur. She raised my R in May to -5.75, and also said I could try a -6 R lens and I did, but even the -5.75 makes things look horrendous fishbowl inside the diopter bubble, so I went with the -5.75. Thank you tons for reading my post!

Hi Meri, reading with your naked eyes at that distance and even at night could be a big issue here, it’s way too close and no daylight - so maybe doing that outside with your reading glasses? And for the evenings switch to audiobooks or listening to podcasts, music, etc…?

Is there any park close to you where you can sit on a bench and clear things up? For a lot of us AF is easier when not moving…

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Keep up with the patching! I tend to do it in the morning when I wake up. I do it anywhere from 15mins to an hour at most. The more you AF, the better you can do it, and that will eventually translate into you being able to do it while your walking. It takes some time, but you’ll get there!

Hi Michaela, thank you! but oh dear. That’s how I get to sleep! Is there a reference about “too close” that I could study to understand this better?

I read about 15-30 minutes and fall asleep during, or nearly, wake up take off the patch and shut the light, back to sleep.

What I did first was set up a strong reading light over my shoulder because the bedside lamp was dim. Then I patch so that I only read with my weak right eye, at edge of blur. I found I could bring the font size way down on the first night without holding the kindle closer. It feels so relaxing. It’s an old kindle which the pages look real, not like electronics. I hope this isn’t wrong. But if it is I will change it. I have a way to listen to calming water-sounds instead at bedtime, but really hope I can still read if I do it right…

Yes there is! thank you, I didn’t think of that. :wink: Not a bench, but I go past this grassy place I can pull over in the car and do AF, nearly every day.

The other thing I just noticed when looking for the date I started patching, is that though I started endmyopia on 28 April, in actual fact I didn’t get my prescriptions fully sorted until end of May.

First, mid May my R was upped from -5.25 to -5.75 for distance vision, and my new differentials didn’t arrive till 29 May. So I think I should only be counting from beginning of June, which means I’ve only been doing the pgme for 2 months. When I wrote this post, without checking my notes, I had thought I was on the program since April. I was thinking of how long ago it seemed that I’d been to the eye drs.

Thank you Bobby! Yes I’ll keep patching. I do feel like things clear when walking but not sure if it’s the getting closer or my eyes focussing better. Either way, each time something looks clearer it feels like a win.

Yesterday stuck in traffic I thought instead of feeling impatient, use the time for AF. Lots of wins there too.

I guess from the responses not too much else I’m doing wrong? It’s great to have such support when I was starting to feel so disappointed. Thanks again all.


In this video for example, Jake talks about the distance you should hold your phone- should be at arm length almost, he says that reading at a much closer distance is not good… too much strain and you’ll see your centimeters going down… well that didn’t happen for you fortunately, 15-30 minutes is not so much but still…

Of course, we really want you to have a good sleep at night :sleeping:
So what about wearing your differentials for reading on the kindle and maybe putting it on some stand to have it further away- don’t know if your arms are long enough?:smiley:

Seeing improvment in the 5 to 6 diopter range can be difficult, you can start measuring with your differentials instead, the results in terms of centimeters will be much clearer.
Do you also measure in the morning sometimes? Maybe you see better in the morning?

So yes, it’s only two months and you didn’t start from an overcorrection, keep up with your habits and you’ll see some results!

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I never saw that video before, had no idea, thank you! I do wonder what’s the theory behind close = eyestrain, if you move it just close enough so that it’s at edge of blur and not closer than you need. Would that still cause ciliary spasm. I don’t have a smart phone but texting makes me feel crosseyed, so I only do that when I have to.

I tried that last night! I was surprised, the book ended up about 18 inches away and it looked clearest with the same small size font. This is only R eye. It felt a bit peculiar, like I wanted to take them off… I can’t identify what was peculiar yet… but I could read and clear up. It didn’t feel as relaxed as with no specs on but certainly not as close.

This morning I tried that. First without any lenses, same lighting as normal, was the same as before. With the differentials - I found this even more difficult to get the measure, it kept changing - it seemed to be R 24.1cm and L 58.4cm. I’ll have to work on this differential measuring, it’s weird. When I find the edge of blur, the same amount of blur stays when I move further back. I redo it and then the edge of blur is closer… then redo and it’s farther away… I think I need to wait longer in one spot before I take the measure.

When I measure I use the kindle with the same font size as all the previous measures, which is one larger than what I now use to read with. Comparing the kindle font to a word doc, the one I have been measuring with is 13 Times new roman. The one I now read with is 12 .

I’ve been measuring mainly in the morning and sometimes at night (when I do it at all). Sometimes the left (stronger) eye is a little lower at night but usually it’s the same. That could be due to all the outdoor short breaks preventing lock-up, I’m guessing.

Meanwhile, yesterday’s outdoor AF cleared up quicker than usual. That was a win. I feel like my outdoor vision is having flashes of clarity. When I do the short breaks, it’s with signs directly outside of the house, where I can stand and look without too much interruption (well, yesterday 2 dog walkers…)

Yesterday in the same short break, I noticed that if I stare at a sign a long time, first it clears a bit and then it becomes MORE blurry. so I blink to get rid of that. I don’t know why that happens?

Thank you!

That’s really weird, it should give you more or less equal centimeters for both eyes -well a bit more for the left as you can see the 20/40 line and with your right eye only 20/50, but not that huge difference! Do you use the same diopter ratio as in your normalized?

The closer you look, the more tense the ciliary muscle has to become - that’s the anatomy. For reading at a distance at about 16 centimeter the ciliary muscle has to be quite tight - you may not feel it right now because you are used to it, but once you start reading with your differentials at a reasonable distance (as shown in the video- must not be a phone, I just had that in mind as an example) you’ll feel the difference.

Regarding the changing edge of blur when measuring with differentials, not sure what is happening here- could be some astigmatism or your eyes doing some sort of automatic AF?

I think so. But, my normalized is contacts, and my differentials are glasses. In the daytime, +1.25 over contacts, morning and night without contacts I wear the differentials. When Dr Wosk did my differentials, she lowered the normalised and had me do screen distance with both eyes only. She said my eyes are ‘very flexible’, so she checked the farthest distance you can read at. Well now I’m not sure if it was after she upped my R contact. If not, maybe my differentials are still monovision with the R eye for reading. I haven’t figured how to get the contacts equiv yet. The differentials are R-4.75 and L-3.50 and my contacts normalised are R-5.75 and L-4.0. I’m terrible at math.

Last night too tired to measure but this morning with differentials I got R 27.9cm (better) and L 58.4 same.

Ah that’s right, thank you. I lost track of that. I’ve been only thinking of ‘not too strong a correction’ being the main thing. Diff glasses patched using my R eye only, just feels real strange, but yes there’s a lot of uncorrected astigmatism there (cos astig correction felt even worse).

I think both. I find it very challenging to measure even with Dr Wosk. ‘which is clearer’ well I don’t bloody know, they’re different but neither is clearer. Before her, (20 yrs ago) all my prescrips were way too strong. In fact, I could never use the last full strength progressives glasses, even from her. So, AF in the exam room.

Eagle thanks so much for helping me - I hope I can get this sorted. Maybe I should change my screen name to ‘flexible eyes’ :wink:

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You are welcome, so let’s shed some more light on your flexible eyes :wink:

So the glasses equivalent for your contacts would be R -6,25 and L -4,25 (just search for contacts to glasses converter) which means there is a difference of 2 D between left end right eye, whereas in your differentials its just 1,25 D.
But I don’t think that these are the numbers of your differentials, the results don’ t match your measurements.

Yes, seems they are .

Anyway, you really want the diopter ratio to be the same in normalized and differentials, otherwise your visual cortex won’t be happy (I hear Jake talking :wink:). That can also be a cause of not improving.
So if you use them only for reading with a patch, it’s ok and then you have your +glasses over the contacts. If the +1,25 work fine for your screen then you know what you should have in your differential glasses.

oh! oh! uhoh… I remember Dr Wosk said, the computer glasses should be 1.5 less than the regular, (and o course Jake too) but still she tested my screen distance. She said once I get the computer glasses, set the computer screen to match and then get + over contacts to be the same. But what I didn’t realize was which R eye reading she was using. I’m so used to monovision that I didn’t notice.

I do use the differential glasses about 2 hrs in the morning and night, not just the patch. Though at night I’m sometimes still in contacts with +1.25, thinking I’m already in the differentials. So I’ll get new differentials as soon as I do the maths :frowning: I just have to think real hard and write it all down. I know from what you have explained that one eye has to go up and the other down till they match 1.5 less than my contacts. :wink:

Hugs, ‘flexi’

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Oh wait a minute, its one eye has to go up OR the other down. Also, Dr Wosk said my reading prescription is +2 but though she’s great with AF, she hasn’t studied endmyo. yet and I think from the video that would be wrong unless I am doing like sewing, super close up.

Edit next morning-

I’m getting closer to figuring this out - my R eye differential prescrip has to go up to match. Soon as I thought that, I got a headache in my left eye… and then realized that the screen is too close for my L eye, I can move it back. Arms distance plus an inch now.

I did some math - I came up with 2 different results so far. confuse-a-cat. I’ll keep at it.

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Oh heck I’m stuck. I nearly had it. The +1.25 is the correct one, which I tested out with readers over my diffs and other experiments the last couple days. :slight_smile:

So I subtracted the 1.25 from my contacts and changed that number to glasses from the chart. It seemed easy enough, I’m wearing +1.25 readers so take away 1.25 from each contact lens number would equal ‘contacts differentials’ and then what’s the glasses number for that… ermm… this is where I think I’m going the wrong way.

Cos when I instead subtract the 1.25 from the normalised glasses numbers, well that doesn’t result in the same numbers for differentials… Now I know you mustn’t give me diopter advice. What I’m stuck on is the arithmetic and the theory of the chart…

I don’t understand the chart well enough.
The first column on the left is glasses, and the next column is contacts? and the cyl column is your astig correction?

I just don’t understand his sentence " Any prescription over -3.50 to -4 diopter, and add +0.25 diopters for every two diopters of increase"

But, I saw there how you got the glasses equiv. numbers from the chart, but it says there “-0.75 cyl” and I don’t have any cylinders.

Now that I’ve written all this, it seems like I should keep my contacts numbers out of it and maybe that’s why I’m confused. But I’m not sure.

I just re read the email of " The reduction is usually between 1.5 and 2 diopters less, than your regular distance prescription." and I found another post of this too… He doesn’t say anywhere to lower from your contacts diopters first, does he?

I’m hoping to sleep on it and wake up with sudden illumination in the morning. I apologise for long confusing posts. I’m even more confused than I wrote! Surely it must be simpler.

Edit- I read what I wrote! and think it’s subtract my 1.25 from the normalised glasses diopters and that’s the way to go. I hope that’s right!

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Yes Mery, keep your contacts out of it and just subtract 1,25 from your normalised glasses diopters and no worry, that‘s not diopter advice.

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whew! whew! thank you! Think I’ll also re read the email series again. :smile::):upside_down_face:

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Update. I ordered my new differentials with the CORRECT DIOPTERS (-5, -3) ! Made a mistake on the frame, had to change the order, waiting for approval to reorder the correct frame. Meanwhile, I’m trying to use the old differntials less, more with patch rather than the incorrect L diopters.

AF - the place by the park has great signs both sides of the road, and before lunch I stop there - in the car, nobody interrupts me. Also just outside the house here, 3x a day or more. Sometimes really good clarity real quickly.

It’s interesting to me that my R eye used to be the dominant and was for distance with the L eye for reading, with both fairly close in diopters, but in 2015 (start of the time of extreme stress) the L eye got better and R got so much worse that the L is now dominant. At the same time got the diagnosis of small degeneration/cataracts. Less stress now. I keep telling myself that the R eye is going to get better again and hoping to heal up the other things too.

@eagle-eyes thanks so much for your support, I’ve been feeling desperate about it all and have nobody here to talk to about this!

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You are very welcome, glad I could help you a bit. So let‘s hope that your right eye catches up soon, maybe your visual cortex still remembers a more equal power!:eyes:
Btw, there are some threads on cataract here as well but probably you‘ve seen them already.
So keep us posted how it goes and feel free to ask whatever is coming up!

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Oh my is that brilliant or what! :star_struck: And that must be why monovision isn’t such a great idea! I might start a thread about monovision - I couldn’t find one anywhere.

There might be a way to do remembering with ‘mental practice’ (something you can do with music, etc)… like, remembering times of how “more equal diopters” looked and felt.

I haven’t looked at cataract posts too much- somehow I got the idea they might just resolve with AF before I ‘notice’ them, but also don’t want to find out that’s not true. I’d rather just hope. I did get great blue block sunglasses with polarized clipsons, and take those lutein-C-E vits.


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Update! Got my new differentials. At first everything did not focus and though my R eye is still rather weak and not seeing anywhere as clearly as the L, the R lens felt too strong. I put this down to the years of monovision. Then I noticed the same phenomenon when I put in my contacts, and when I take them out at night to resume differential glasses.

Anyway I also just came across myopiaismental.com and I think that’s brilliant too.

I’m noticing more distance AF clarity! but for now skipping the measuring since I’m totally off the wall with measuring. I did do a baseline measurement before putting on the new differentials.

Thanks again @eagle-eyes !! :sunny:

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