What's the advice for people who can't buy norms/diffs?

It’s come up a few times in the Discord, people who aren’t able to buy norms/diffs. I don’t really know how someone would go about doing much with their vision in these cases.

Would someone tell them to do a whole load of print pushing, not wear glasses for distance vision… what are the prospects for improvement. Is the better answer to say ‘wait until you can get those glasses?’


When someone else decides what happens to your eyes and you disagree, that might be a good moment to rethink the whole slave life affair.

These glasses are not expensive nor conspicuous enough to be really hard to get your hands on. It’s more of a question of overcoming whatever hurdles someone’s masters put in the way.

The people saying this probably don’t have a clear opinion on the origin of myopia, and so don’t think the hassle is worth it. That’s a different problem, and IMO not one we should be solving, because it’s easy to get targeted for. (Beardmaster1967 was actually a 12-year-old girl and you brainwashed her into your cult! Answer for your crimes!!1)


Varakari said pretty much everything, but in simpler terms I continue: you won’t get any more rich omitting your health/wellness. In fact, to invest in your health is the most successful investments you’d never regret.

If the reasons are more fuzzed, there are opinions eyesight will improve from any amount of myopic defocus (this is not going to work w/ high myopia because the distance is simply too close for eyes to work normally). So if the edge of blur isn’t too close for normal life and productivity, they might try quitting correction. They might want to read Ursa’s posts here, also.

Yes, if the correction is not too high, logically it seems that keeping just at the edge of blur at near and AF at the furthest successful distance would result in the same kind of gains. With significant astigmatism, I don’t know.

I can imagine various scenarios that would make buying glasses for oneself not an option. Somehow it comes to me that someone in such circumstances may not be able to employ the necessary habits to progress.

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I tend to think someone who is determined enough will find a way. I know a 12 year old who managed to get her hands on a piercing kit and pierced her own nose and no one knew until after the fact.
Also this:

That said I have read that some people pull their glasses down on their nose as a diffs cheat, I am not convinced of this being a great plan but if removing the glasses isn’t an option this could help in a pinch. Also drugstore plus is pretty easy to come by, they could stack, again not ideal as a long term plan though.
Ultimately though, I am just not sure someone could improve much if they can not adjust their correction along the way. They might do well to adopt some better habits now and then try to apply the method when their situation changes in favor or being able to get those reductions.

3 posts were merged into an existing topic: Andrew Fixes His Eyesight From -5 (video log!)

If you can’t afford glasses or are in prison or an orphanage or some place where they’re not available, you’d just have to use distance. Focus on a spider on the wall of your cell or anything you can find that’s at your blur horizon.

If you had access to reading material you’d want to get as much distance on it as you could (print pushing.)

I think you’d still improve under those circumstances especially if you got adequate sunlight out in the yard or on the chain gang.

The lenses are a rather modern invention (compared to say fire, or agriculture) and most people through most eras never wore them. Myopia used to be pretty rare.

Probably the biggest single thing you could do, in the modern world, would be to ditch the smartphone or other tiny screen. I think with good attention to eye hygiene you’d improve. The lenses are a crutch or convenience so that you’re not wandering around tripping over things while you’re getting your vision back.

It is possible to stop myopia progression without norms/diffs just with good habits.
And it is perfectly possible to reverse myopia (a) without norms, just with diffs or (b) without norms and diffs if the myopia is below -2D.

As for the reversal:

  • If it is an adult: 99.99% of those adults who can chat online can surely afford glasses from Zenni. Where there’s a will there’s a way. Tend to agree with the earlier comments that if someone cannot make this effort, then the person is unlikely to make the effort of changing glasses, reducing screen time, increasing distance vision time, etc. either…
  • If it is a child or a teen accidentally bumping into EM, it is different. If the kids can’t get approval from parents, they can’t buy glasses, they can’t ask optos for lower presciprtions typically. Even if they have their pocket money and they are ready to spend it on Zenni glasses, it is unlikely for them to be in a position to place an order for an overseas delivery using a credit card. So they can stop the progression with good habits and wait until they can order online.