Why do you want to end your myopia?

@jakey talks a lot about this topic in various videos, posts, podcasts etc., that you should have some goal, have some reward system, have some hobbies or reason to do it, because then it will be a much different experience. Because then it’s not like "ah I have to deal with this blur and which glasses should I use or not should I use or reduce or not reduce or go up and… " whatever. But for example you love surfing and then you just reach a point where “Hey, I can surf without glasses how cool is that?” (yeah, I was looking at the podcast with Joey when I started to think about this :smiley:)

And then I started to think why I want to get rid of glasses? And I realized I have only two reason:

  1. and the biggest one for me is convenience. It’s a more simple life when you don’t need those plastics on your face and then you cannot scratch your eyes without moving them, or when it’s rainy or foggy it gets wet and then you have those this annoying blurry droplets in your vision. Or when you travel you have to make sure to have a replacement with you. Or it can be annoying when doing some physical activity and so on. And of course you always have to clean them which is super annoying.
  2. Because it’s a more healthy state of the eye. It’s not really a “subjective” emotional reason, I simply know by pure, cold logic that it would be better for my health if I would not be myopic.

But honestly, that’s all for me. I don’t really have any concrete thing for which I could say that “oh, if I would be emmetrope / low myope this and this would be so much better!”. I mean I don’t hate my glasses as some people do. They never really bothered me, when I got them as a 7 (ish?) year old child I was just like “well it was blurry, now it’s clear, how cool is that?” (retrospectively most likely that was when my sort of regular headaches started, but I’ve never linked the two). And I don’t do anything where having a glasses is more than a minor inconvenience. Currently my main hobbies (except for computer related things) are coffee and maybe hiking. You don’t need good vision for the first and many people do in sunglasses the latter so it’s not that big difference.

So if I really think about it, I don’t really have a big reason to get rid of glasses. Or in other word an (emotionally) positive reason to get rid of glasses.

So I got curious how are others with this? :slight_smile: What is your reason to end your myopia?

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Those are pretty much my current reasons as well. Although, I used to train sport shooting and I would’ve wished for nothing more then not having to deal with the lens while aiming. Nowadays my reasons would be being able to see clearly while swimming and just getting rid of glasses for convenience as I don’t hate them anymore. On the contrary, I enjoy switching them and almost every time I order slightly different-shaped or colored frames.

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Curiosity - just to find out if it is possible. It has made very little difference to my life, other than that I can now also drive (and cut my toenails) without glasses, but I do very little of that. :smile:

My determination comes from my personality - I like to complete what I undertake.

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Because I look better without glasses.

More seriously though, it is part of me getting healthy and fit in general. I want to graduate from the couch potato status and good eyesight is at least as important to me as good endurance or strength or flexibility.

The more I do EM though, the more I discover reasons to do it. The world outside actually looks so much prettier than screens.

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No particulier goal in mind. I really enjoy the process so far. Realizing things about my surroundings I have never noticed before, gives me great joy. In a sense I see better without glasses then I have ever done with glasses. :crazy_face:

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For me, knowing what is possible. I wore glasses for so many years without questioning. That was a mistake. There was a way to change the situation to my liking but I didn’t do it because I was not looking to change it.

And… improving eyesight seems so miraculous. You know like… “blind man can see again.” :grin: So, I chose myopia reversal as a pilot project to see what is possible and opening doors to many more possibilities (on health & other areas).

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This is almost EXACTLY how I feel as well.
I do some sports, for which I use contacts as glasses slip around, especially when sweating, but putting in contacts is more of a minor inconvenience. PLus I use the monthlies well over a month so the price is also not inhibitive.

Swimming as a kid without glasses was also blurry and annoying, but since I use contacts + goggles to keep the water out, it is also mostly fine…

As you say: the rain thing, plus not having to put something on your face in the morning to see clearly in your room - that’s why getting to low myopia may be enough for me anyway - 20/20 is probably impossible anyhow, as I read on here about last diopter stuff - people working full time at the computer will NEVER be able to get to 20/20 unless they are lucky and the plus lens method works for them but can’t think of any other way, so yeah might as well get realistic and just try to reach low myopia if I can without disrupting my life too much
I already realised I’m not going to drastically start doing new stuff JUST to reduce myopia - then it becomes a chore - it has to be something that really motivates you and inspires you - sure, try out new things in case you like them , then distance vision is a bonus, but to do them just to get distance vision ? nah, not maintainable.

so yeah, the goal of 20/20 vision in itself is not enough, it has to be a by-product of your life

oh yeah, and of course, if axial shortening is possible, to do that to get into lower-risk category for retinal problems. That’s another main motivator

so far, for my 0.25 to 0.5 D improvement, the price paid in extra floaters is quite high :frowning: so I hope that it’ll be worth it

on a side-note on the plus lens method for low myopia - why is it that @jakey says in every video he cannot recommend it due to many people having side effects and wierd vision stuff but in no video I have seen actually listing what those problems are, specifically? Is it some kind of secret you only get if you’re in back to 2020 program?

I think the idea is:
a) people overdo plus lenses
b) for some people, it confuses their visual Cortex and it creates more complications than solutions.
I haven’t tried plus lenses because I was afraid that my visual Cortex will get too confused in managing distance…

Dr Bates says that floaters is due to myopia (or just bad vision). Curing myopia will reduce floaters. My own experience has also been same. Initially, floaters may increase when your eyes improve slightly, but then as your eyes improve even more, floaters tend to be cured.

yeah but this is, again, for me, not specific enough. I’d like to know WHAT exactly happens to your vision from over-use of plus lenses. e.g. you will not be able to converge your eyes and focus on something, or what?

really? hmm. I’ve never in my life seen a decrease in floaters, they only seem to become more and more slowly but surely… or maybe I just didn’t notice any improvement

I think it is related to distance management. The brain becomes confused with different focal planes. Just guessing…

Hmm… you can try pineapple cure. Also, fasting seems to cure floaters…

I don’t remember where I saw it, I think it was one of the videos (I’m going through @NottNott’s Endmyopia videos converted to mp3 folders on auto-continue while doing distance breaks, so I don’t know the name of the videos). He mention double vision and also presbyopia symptoms. Though maybe hyperopia would be a better name? Essentially that people who overdo plus lenses starting to experience near point increase. Which make sense, because you essentially gets lens dependent again, just in the opposite direction.

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I have seen it mentioned that one potential side effect of over doing plus lenses is persistent double vision.
But while Jake is cautious is recommending them, I have also gathered from EM that using them for one third or less of your close up time may be a less risky amount to use them. Just what I have picked up here and there though. No actual experience here.

I want to end my myopia because I only became lens-dependant at the age of 22. And I have never quite resigned myself to being a person that wears glasses all the time. My idea of me does not include lens-dependancy, so being a glasses-wearer is still jarring to me, even after 10 years.

So I want to get rid of the glasses because I want to be me again.

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I disagree with this. N=1 experience: my wife. She was (low) myopic, reversed to emmetropia because of habit changes. She has now 20/10-20/15 vision (home test with 6m Snellen). She has an office job, working on computer whole day. Spends a lot of time on phone and also on computer at home. Also reading books a loot (I’ve measured, it’s about 30 cm from here eyes :slight_smile: ). She practically has the same “away from computer” time as me. How she do it then? The “luck” part is because of her work she has to get up from the computer. Not for a long time, it’s just going to a printer, as a question to a colleage, give some information to a colleage, etc. It’s just 5-10 minutes, but she has these short breaks regularly. At home Her computer is about 80 cm from her “sit straight” position, but many times she is watching some movie on the computer and laying back, which means more like 120-130 cm. She is usually also on the phone during this, and while that’s only about 30-40 cm what happens is that she constantly changes focal planes between the phone and screen. Which I suspect is much better for the eye than just watching the same constant focal plane, even if it’s a larger distance (like 80-100 cm). Also she usually cannot sit before the computer for long, so essentially she is doing at least a few minutes break after about every hour (sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, it’s just an average). Of course all of these are “instincts” for her, she doesn’t do this to prevent myopia, she do this because she does things like this :slight_smile: In this way of course she is lucky. But she complains about blurry vision if for some reason she works a lot without having breaks (like 3-4+ hours continously). So she is not immune to ciliary spasm. But then she does some walks and few hours of distance vision and it is back to emmetrope.
So while she has some luck with her habits I think there is nothing on this list which should not be doable even for geeks.

Also Jake does not really says different: he says that you should have either a few minutes break every hours or you should have 1 hour break after 3 hour of continues close-up.

Soo… while 20/20 may be hard for people who are on computer for both work and hobbies, I’m pretty sure something like 20/30 - 20/40 should be easy. And that practically mean you can go without glasses for most of the time. There is a study (of course not dealing with long term, but short term effects, so it’s questionable how translatable it is, but we have only this… ) where they determined that the human eye is much more easily reacts to myopic defocus than to hyperopic (if I remember correctly it’s about 1:3 ratio, so 20m myopic defocus has the same effect as 60m hyperopic defocus). Which means you need much less distance time than close-up time to improve and maintain.

I think the biggest problem for maintaining emmetropia is continous close-up time with the exact same focal plane. If you can manage to avoid that (either by adding breaks, or doing close-up in such a way that you switch focal planes) then it’s an easier process. Also I think if you are already emmetrope it’s much easier to notice ciliary spasm, because instead of “clear” vision you will get a slight blur. During the Endmyopia process it’s a bit harder, because in some sense you are used to having blur, with the slight undercorrection. But I think it will be a much bigger difference when you are emmetrope already.
Of course improving most likely is a bit harder, because it’s not enough to maintain but you also have to reverse it. But I think maintaining it is not such as big deal as it seems from the myopic viewpoint (pun intended :slight_smile: )

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ok thanks for the info, maybe there is hope then but as you say, hard for people who do hard, design or analytical jobs at the computer where they get into a mental flow and forget about moving for hours maybe

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I don’t think though that’s healthy anyway :slight_smile: Definitely not good for the spine, regardless how ergonomic the chair is.

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Not even sure where to start.

  • Being handicapped just isn’t good.
  • Glasses restrict field of view, which I’m constantly aware of… I’d like it back.
  • Glasses reflect sunlight, even with coatings, causing extra bright spots.
  • Glasses get dirty all the time, making me see even less.
  • Swimming used to be fun, until I couldn’t see squat.
  • Being outside in the rain used to be fun, but now it messes up the glasses.

Some might propose contacts, but they have their own issues… so… what to do? Lasik?! I’d prefer not to have disinterested people laser shapes into my cornea.

There’s also a more philosophical part:

  • I want to fix my mistakes. My naivity deformed my eyes, so I should deal with the consequences.
  • I’m anti-authoritarian; recovering from an authority’s bad prescription is a nice show of defiance.
  • The world needs a clearer answer on what about myopia is true and what is quackery.

The last bit is bigger than it seems. While I’m personally still unsure how much improvement is possible and how exactly it works, I’m convinced of the explanation for the myopia epidemic. Evidence of stimulated shortening might also break the dam on this huge topic about the abuse of minus lenses and near work that’s happening all around the world.

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I have a generally different take, at least I used to.

Back in 2002, I stumbled upon techniques similar to what we do with EM, and was on the path to reversing my myopia (got down from -5.5 to about -4.75). I eventually bailed because I didn’t know how long it took to do this, but also because I realized that I’d always wear glasses.

What do I mean? Well, my work involves 6-8 hours a day writing software in front of a screen. To avoid regressing, I need plus glasses so my ciliary isn’t engaged significantly while programming (or at least I thought that back then). Since I spent most of my awake time looking close, I realized the glasses wouldn’t go away, so the “get rid of glasses” argument many give for undoing myopia didn’t apply to me.

And the other part is when I’m -5 myopic, I can see sharp down to 15cm! That’s like having personal magnifying glasses all the time! It’s really cool. I didn’t want to give that up, and part of me misses that (it now hurts to look that close since I’ve undone 40% of my myopia now).

So in the end, given the fact that I’d still wear glasses most of the time, that I’d lose my awesome close-up viewing, and that it would take a long long time (and I’d live in blur until then), I bailed on the concept in 2002.

So what changed this time?

Well, part of it is a “prove it can be done” concept. Another part is in the meantime, I got into DSLRs and astronomy, so got a great appreciation for optical quality (this is also why I never did LASIK btw, didn’t want to degrade my view). Another part is being able to see sharp when I wake up, shower, etc.

But a big part of it is to be able to see the world as we’re meant to see it. Glasses are not viewing the world as it is, but a distorted constricted view. Contacts are better, but still not the same. I realized that I’ve never driven a car with just my regular eyes. I haven’t seen the world as it actually looks like in over 35 years. I’d like to do that now.

But I will miss my near vision. I’ll miss eating food without discomfort (of engaging the ciliary muscle). And I’ll have missed out on several years of sharp, sharp views due to pushing the edge of blur to undo all this.

All that said, it is a fun project, and if successful, will yield a new view (pun intended) on the world :slight_smile:

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Yeah, after a successful completion of a task I’m suddenly aware I have a body of flesh, and it has needs.

That’s part of why I don’t use chairs. I have a wide and deep bench for floor sitting postures at my desk. My desk is also motorized so I can change the height to be appropriate for my current posture, or remove the bench and stand.

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